WWDC & Apple Vision Pro

Tom: 0:00

There's a bunch of dorks like us. Alright. Here we go once again, basic AF Show. It is Tom Anderson, Jeff Batteries B, W. W. D. C. Week. Jeff, it has been a week.

Jeff: 0:21

It has been a week, and I'm still coming to you, Tom, from Jeffrey Dahmer's basement.

Tom: 0:25

Well, you're dressed like in your storing bodies there. It looks cold.

Jeff: 0:29

It's it's cold. It's cold in the northeast and smoky. It smells like everybody's having a barbecue.

Outro Music: 0:34

So They

Tom: 0:35

I saw they postponed the Yankee's game tonight because of the smoke.

Jeff: 0:38

Oh, I believe it.

Tom: 0:39

I was supposed to be tomorrow. Like, apparently, it's I don't know if it'll be better tomorrow or not. They will

Jeff: 0:43

find a engine. Well, we're supposed to have up to fifteen mile an hour winds this evening, so maybe that'll blow the smoke your way. I hope I

Tom: 0:51

think it did all day. It was pretty breezy here today and yesterday. And we don't have as much as you do up to

Jeff: 0:58

ten year

Tom: 0:58

in Virginia, but we've got is hazy like I was looking at sun last night? And it's like this, you know, orange disc, but you don't have to squint it off. It's like it's just like yeah. It's there. Mhmm. You know, but Yeah.

Jeff: 1:11

Right. You you can be Donald Trump looking at the eclipse.

Tom: 1:17

Yeah. You could do that.

Jeff: 1:18

You know, I'm sleeping politics. Well, that one's okay. What's a good joke?

Tom: 1:23

That one's pretty good.

Jeff: 1:25

Yeah. You know, you stand on my backyard. I have two two little stone walls. One's about twenty feet from my back door, and the other one's about probably forty five feet from my back door. Mhmm. And if you are standing on the back porch, looking out, there's a haze at the twenty foot wall. Nice. So, yeah, that's great. My lungs, you know, my lungs, so

Tom: 1:47

cough as much as you need to. And that's how you

Jeff: 1:49

guys get to take up smoking.

Tom: 1:50

Well, I think you might as well. So Monday, so we're recording this a little bit early this week. Gonna be heading out of town to the beach And so we thought we'd go ahead and get that done especially with it being the keynote week and w w d c conference and all that fun stuff. So we're recording on Wednesday. So just a couple of days after the keynote. So some you know, if news comes out between now and this publishes that contradicts anything we're talking about. Well, it wouldn't be the first. Yeah. Yep.

Jeff: 2:26

So what if we've been wrong before, Tom?

Tom: 2:28

Oh, yeah. We'll be give us a couple minutes. We'll do it again. So last show, we did our wish list for the conference to see what well, to to express what we would like to see. And then Tom. Yeah. Did okay. No surprise.

Jeff: 2:47

No. You did great. Santa Claus loves you.

Tom: 2:50

Yep. Oh, Santa Cook cooked me up.

Jeff: 2:53

Yeah. Right. Send a cookie a good job. Mhmm. So we could do a quick rundown. I'll just tell you everything Tom got right. Widgets redone, bring back the dash Well, maybe not the dashboard, but he definitely got some redone widgets gonna be able to interact with those. A better strange strange manager.

Tom: 3:12

I'm not gonna comment on that.

Jeff: 3:16

I'm what's a better strange. All sorts of things that could be said about that. Stage manager, free formed window sizes. You got that too, Tom. Yeah.

Tom: 3:25

It sounds like it from what does people were saying. So it looks like they made some some nice improvements to that.

Jeff: 3:32

Correct. Better data visualization. Actually, the better health app, particularly in the macOS side. Gonna get some health there. That's good. We were both riding about a fifteen book fifteen inch MacBook Air. Not that there was much chance to get that particular thing wrong. And I will say that everything else that I wished for, Tom. I get bookies. I get a hole in my stocking. Zippy cook stocking. Yep. You know what I mean? You know, who knows? Maybe something like my display menu. And the menu bar will show up, you know, when I download a latency.

Tom: 4:06

But Right. Yeah. Because a lot of the stuff is Yeah. Is it keynote worthy necessarily, but it ends up turning up during the -- Right. -- during the beta words,

Jeff: 4:15

you're saying that

Tom: 4:15

You still gotta change that.

Jeff: 4:17

It's just really pissy. Is what you're saying. I mean,

Tom: 4:19

I didn't say it.

Jeff: 4:20

They sent little yeah. Well, I know I guess. It's a

Tom: 4:22

little thanks.

Jeff: 4:23

It is too little things. It definitely is. Congratulations, Tom. If we were giving out money

Tom: 4:31

-- Man, well. --

Jeff: 4:33

for all the things you got, if

Tom: 4:34

we made any money, we could give some out.

Jeff: 4:37

Well, you know, it's kinda

Tom: 4:38

It's early.

Jeff: 4:39

It's early. Yeah.

Tom: 4:40

Something else they did with well, we could well, I'll save that we get

Jeff: 4:45

to No.

Tom: 4:45

Say it. Go. No. It's just gonna say when they if you want, we can lead the use this as the jumping off point, but so they did that fifteen inch MacBook Air Uh-huh. Which looks great. I think I told you we were chatting back and forth. So, man, I wish that was out, you know, before when I'd gotten my sixteen inch Mac a pro, I definitely would've picked that up instead.

Jeff: 5:04

Well, tell and and but

Tom: 5:05

you can't buy what's going on.

Jeff: 5:06

Stole in my computer later. I would've Right. We've got it too dicks. But better job things.

Tom: 5:13

Yeah. But the other thing they did is they surprisingly dropped the price of the thirteen inch model -- Yeah. -- by a hundred bucks, which was nice because that's got some implications for me at work. And we're we're evaluating options there, but I think it's gonna allows to do a little processor upgrade or something and kinda maintain the same price point. So that'll be kind of nice.

Jeff: 5:33

That's great. And those MacBook Airs, that that form factor is is Brilliant. It really is it really is my middle child, youngest daughter, picked one up for school and she started graduate school in it's it's a great computer, really is. So

Tom: 5:49

-- Yep. -- so they'll they'll sell a ton of those. And the price was was good. I I expected it kinda fall into that fourteen ninety nine mark, but this twelve ninety nine, that's good.

Jeff: 5:59

Yeah. No. It's great. And believable. That sounds truly

Tom: 6:02

fantastic there. Other hardware that they did, they upgraded or I should say updated the Mac Studio. Yep. Within m two ultra, so you can get it in m two max m two ultra. And they bumped the RAM up to that. I think up to a hundred and ninety two. I don't remember

Jeff: 6:23

what A hundred ninety two. Maybe I don't either recall. Well, you have a short chat back and forth that that might be not upgradeable at all in either of these. Right. But either the because they also did the the Mac pro.

Tom: 6:40

They did. Yeah. They did.

Jeff: 6:43

But they're both they have a ceiling of a hundred and ninety two gigs, both of them. Mhmm. Which you had said particularly with with the pro that that might make a few people a little not happy. I still think or feel like, you know, with onboard around now, it it feels a lot like it's twice as much.

Tom: 7:08

It does. Yeah. And and to be honest, like, I can't really speak with any experience on what the folks that use the Mac Pro and have jammed, like the the Intel based Mac Pro would go up to one point five terabytes of RAM. Which is ridiculous. But but I don't and I know people use it. Like, they do large data sets and all sorts of things, but all I know are you know, a few threads I read here and there. I've never done anything remarkably close to that so I cannot speak to it with any informed discussion anyway, but it it is significantly less than one hundred and ninety two gigs obviously versus the one point five -- Yeah. -- terabyte but you've got your, you know, your expansion slots are in the Mac Pro now, which so it's basically they took the Mac Studio, put it in the Mac Pro chassis and gave you some you know, PCI expansion slots.

Jeff: 8:01

Yep. But I thought

Tom: 8:02

it was nuts. There's, you know, up to twenty two streams of an eight of eight k. My holy crap. So Yeah.

Jeff: 8:13

And how many I can't remember off the top of my head. How many monitors did it drive? Was

Tom: 8:17

it supports up to six pro display XDRs. Okay. There it's a couple.

Jeff: 8:25

Just to you.

Tom: 8:26

Nancellon. Man, imagine painters. Six of those things. Doesn't sound like thirty how much of those again? Are they ten, six? Six days, something like that. Yeah.

Jeff: 8:34

I don't even look at those things.

Tom: 8:36

No. Because I can't afford it. I mean Well, I I could afford it, but it would be it. Terribly stupid purchase. Like, I can't justify that. So, I mean, I'd love to have one if somebody wants to donate one to the show for research purpose

Jeff: 8:51

Sure. Yeah. Sure.

Tom: 8:53

Twenty four core CPU, seventy six core GPU, and that m two ultra, which is a lot. So if you need that high end stuff, you've got options there. And I tell you, man, that max studio and that's a that is just packed full and is a heck of a machine.

Jeff: 9:10

Yeah. Do you have any of those at work?

Tom: 9:13

I think we have maybe one so far that one of the music production folks picked up. I did not get to see it, but I seem to recall one coming through like as a on a p o or something.

Jeff: 9:26

Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. I have a attached one. It's very nice. Mhmm. You know, the back penny that I'm working on. Right? The second as we speak is plenty.

Tom: 9:37

Yeah. Yeah. Don't And don't forget those, like because we're about to refresh some classrooms. And so just today, I was I was looking at that to to spec it out, send it over to our reseller. And I forgot that they dropped the price of those not long ago either. So it just started, like, four ninety nine education, which is sick. Yep. I think because they're

Jeff: 10:00

excellent. So Oh, they're still one of my favorite macs. Yeah. They they're one of my favorite macs.

Tom: 10:06

And if I may say for me, it's mostly because you don't have to deal with that crap that comes along with the MacBook when plug it up to the external and unplug it and plug it back in and your windows go crazy. So we'll never let that go.

Jeff: 10:22

Nope. Nope.

Tom: 10:24

Alright.

Jeff: 10:24

Nope. Nope.

Tom: 10:26

Anything else on the Mac hardware side of things you want. No.

Jeff: 10:31

That was it on hardware. Well

Tom: 10:32

--

Jeff: 10:32

Yeah. -- even in the obvious.

Tom: 10:35

That's why it took me a second to be like, hi. And it's not just just hardware. We'll get to that.

Jeff: 10:39

Yes. And lots of software -- Mhmm. -- beats particularly in the OS. OS is and which we're gonna dive into these each a little bit more deeply in upcoming episodes. But, yeah,

Tom: 10:57

when we hit those slow days in the summer when there's not much else going on.

Outro Music: 11:00

Correct.

Tom: 11:01

We'll dig into that.

Jeff: 11:02

But some nice new features. I'll add one to TBOS that I've thought about and wish was there before. They've added FaceTime video conferencing which I I'll say that that's something that I wish I'd I'd had a few times. And it it uses used as your phone as a as a means of being the camera because obviously most people's televisions don't have don't have cameras. So you've got the ability to to do that. It's a really nice feature. Like like that upgrade quite a lot, that's kind of a high level high level feature. Some changes as we mentioned a few moments ago in macOS to to the stage manager features or strange manager

Tom: 11:52

--

Jeff: 11:52

Mhmm.

Tom: 11:53

--

Jeff: 11:53

said before. I kinda like that better. Yeah.

Tom: 11:55

I wonder

Jeff: 11:56

if I can get Apple to pick that up. Strange, man.

Tom: 11:58

Get Craig on the phone.

Jeff: 12:01

By the way, of all the segments in in the in that keynote. He's pretty fun dude. He had about an hour's worth of stuff. But he was he was pretty fun to

Tom: 12:15

Yeah. He's always entertaining. Yeah. You know, it just seems like he really just loves the stuff. So I don't think that helps.

Jeff: 12:21

It absolutely does. So that was good. Some nice little features to watch OS. IOS, iPad OS. Yeah. A a bunch of little little things is is what I would say. It doesn't seem like at least initially it's gonna be too crazy in terms of, you know, features which hopefully means you get a little better back end back end details working in a way that they should.

Tom: 12:50

Mhmm.

Jeff: 12:51

But widgets on Mac OS, which is nice. You build your ranges on your desktop in a way that makes makes sense. A light the two things I really liked is the profiles for Safari. Yes. So work profile where you're doing one thing in a, you know, personal profile where you're doing something else and those two worlds never meet, which I kinda like. I like the idea of being able to kinda have that breakdown. I love love love that they are bringing the screensavers that they've had in TBOS -- Mhmm.

Tom: 13:28

--

Jeff: 13:28

through macOS. That's sweet as heck. So I'm really looking forward to that. Games. We still have to do a Nintendo Switch show at some point in time because I am absolutely loving that, but I I mean, Maybe someday games will be good on the back, but I don't think that's gonna be a thing. And then some other features related to, you know, the usual the usual stuff. So privacy and safety, I didn't see any updates to the key chain or an application. Right. But there was a feature that allows you to share passwords to that you can, you know, share groups of passwords with other people.

Tom: 14:11

That's nice. That's a nice addition.

Jeff: 14:13

I I really like that. Yeah. That's a great feature.

Tom: 14:15

Yeah. And we'll have to come up with a new way. It seems at least to talk about Siri because they've changed they're giving you the option anyway to change how you activate Siri. So whether it's the traditional HUI Siri or naïve to Siri, which that could be interesting for, like, podcasters and and stuff who just wanna talk about Siri, you know, you're setting people's things off. So maybe they've got some intelligence built in there to help filter that out. Yeah. Because I know they have some already, so probably just enhance that.

Outro Music: 14:52

The

Jeff: 14:52

I will There's a little side note, by the way, on the the the Syrian Siri thing. Mhmm. Again, because I have one here that would be happy to say hello to me. Was watching the final episode of the Marvelous missus Mayzel last night, and there's character on on that show. Whose name is Susie, And somebody said, hey, Susie,

Tom: 15:12

of course. There it went. I'm having trouble connecting to the Internet.

Jeff: 15:19

It was pretty funny.

Tom: 15:20

Yeah.

Jeff: 15:20

It's funny how that kinda pops off on occasion.

Tom: 15:23

So so it's something that I I saw today that I'm looking forward to. And it's is it a big thing? No. But in reminders, because I think we had talked about this in one episode that we did where I think it was in our grievances maybe. When we were talking about Siri, actually, because I said that the most frequent use case for me with Siri is with the watch when I'm cooking or in the kitchen or whatever, and then notice I need something and I'll say, hey. Mm-mm. Add something to the groceries list. And now, that when you do that, the reminders app will have intelligence built in to sort the list into sections. So you'll get produce dairy and all that. Yeah. So that's nice because we already use that. So it's like, should be a zero friction thing. Not that we actually Yeah.

Jeff: 16:18

You just order these days.

Tom: 16:19

You usually just order and go pick it up. But but that that that'll be nice supposedly. AutoCorrect is going to be getting better. Okay. And that's and kind of a brief aside, that is one of those things where, you know, leading into it and even during it, there was, you know, commentary that Apple doesn't use that I can recall or if they do, it's very limited. The term AI specifically, they usually go machine learning. Right? Criminal networks, machine learning, that sort of thing. And they mentioned that in regard to the AutoCorrect, or it's you're using a transformer modeling. And so it so from what they said is that AutoCorrect on the device will learn the words you used specifically and learned not to to change them, but it didn't make me laugh when Craig said ducking. Sometimes just wanna send a ducking message.

Jeff: 17:22

Well, and apparently, there was a there was a thing that came out today. I didn't I can't remember exactly where I saw it, but Now when you type what ducking refers to, it's not going to ducking change it

Tom: 17:35

-- Right. --

Jeff: 17:35

ducking, which is

Tom: 17:37

because how many times do you type that ducking word and usually is, you may not be in the most pleasant mood anyway. Yeah. And then you take that cake and switch and you just get amped up even more.

Jeff: 17:50

Right.

Tom: 17:50

So so thanks, Craig. We appreciate your help there.

Jeff: 17:53

Yeah. Thank you very much.

Tom: 17:54

That's good. IPad OS gets some changes on the lock screen. It gets the widgets now.

Jeff: 18:03

Yes. Nice. Interactive widgets. We might

Tom: 18:06

be good.

Jeff: 18:06

Oh, the the the

Tom: 18:08

one thing we haven't talked about yet, and I don't are we done with iOS? We we talked a little bit about it, but that sideshow thing looks good where you're with the Hold on. Let me find the name of it here

Jeff: 18:20

real quick. Remind me tongue.

Tom: 18:23

That's the one where it's stand by. Sorry. It's not sideshow. That's a different thing.

Jeff: 18:28

That's I show Bob.

Tom: 18:30

That's where you've got your cell phone on the charger, and when it's rotated into the horizontal aspect. Oh, yeah. Right? It can show a clock or show some other things. Looks pretty neat to get, like, some smart stacks, live activities, things like that. So that's something I'd like to play with. I don't really have a charger that I can kind of prop the phone up in that manner now.

Jeff: 18:52

Mhmm.

Tom: 18:53

It's probably something I'll look at, but Typically, it's like, you know, I've got the watch. And it's like the phone's just on the desk and stays on the desk. Even at night, it's on the nightstand, but with sleep mode, the screen's off. And everything. But -- Mhmm. -- looks neat. I think it's kind of a a thing there's there's more to come to that story. Because you and I said in the during the keynote when we were talking, man, that would look really nice on an iPad.

Jeff: 19:17

Oh, yeah. Of course,

Tom: 19:18

you don't have an always on display on an iPad at this point. Maybe we will, maybe we won't. But there's that rumored home pod slash something with the screen that they've been working on kinda like the the Echo Show or whatever that is. Yes. Because it's the Google Show, the Echo Show, one of those is I think they both have them, but they're the smart home assistance with display. And then you would have that -- Correct. --

Jeff: 19:40

and it seems like the phone is kinda headed in that direction anyway with that feature. Yeah. Alright. Yeah. In iPad OS, so in this shows up, I think, in macOS as well as there's a new PDF features.

Tom: 19:57

Yes.

Jeff: 19:58

It seemed to be much better than they have been previously. I I don't know whether or not you've ever tried to fill in forms using your Mac now, using preview. And it's, you know, depending on on the form you're working with or how you're working with it. Doesn't always work great. I had been using PDF PenPro for a while, and that that got sold off, which is disappointing to me. So this looks like a nice option nice option for me to be able to -- Mhmm.

Tom: 20:33

--

Jeff: 20:34

to kinda handle that. And the nice piece about it is is it's gonna discover phone fields. So even for something that you scan. So you take a picture with your phone of some document that has fields that you might need to be able to fill in. That's gonna be picked up by the new version of preview. So I don't like that a lot.

Tom: 20:54

I do.

Jeff: 20:54

Sense to me. Look forward to it plus some interactive editing. In in the PDF tool. So you can be working on something with somebody else at the same time.

Tom: 21:04

Yeah. And they added that to notes too. So that's nice.

Jeff: 21:07

Yeah.

Tom: 21:07

Yeah. Node just keeps getting better and better and better, which is nice.

Jeff: 21:10

I love Node's

Tom: 21:11

fear like we've talked about before sometimes as Apple forgets they have these apps calendar contacts.

Jeff: 21:16

Mhmm.

Tom: 21:18

But notes, they've they've kinda kept the gas down on the pedal down on that one and keep it moving forward. Also saw that you you can now they're going to be adding linking in notes, so you can link notes inside of other notes. Not I'm sure it's not to the extent like you can do with craft and obsidian and apps like that, but that's okay. It doesn't need to be. Those apps are there if you want the the more robust super nerdy version of that, but notes is I think it's good enough.

Jeff: 21:45

Yeah. And we obviously both use craft That's how we do show prep. We kind of toss stuff into there. But notes for my money, if it adds those features, it's probably all all need. You know, we might need something else together. But

Tom: 22:03

yeah. And different topic for a different day, but I'd love affair with Kraft. The bloom is off the rose, as they say. And so I don't know. We'll see. But did you help?

Jeff: 22:17

We'll see.

Tom: 22:18

Health app on the iPad. Which is good. It's gonna make some of that data. I think at least easier to see on the bigger screen than sometimes on the phone. It just doesn't have room to breathe, and hopefully that'll help out with that. I did see to some of the wellness things they've added as part of that. So, you know, it'll basically say how to feel today. And then when you give it your input, then it it gives you some things to look at to see, okay, well, wide might you be feeling that way? And, like, it showed the screenshot I saw anyway. I haven't loaded any of this stuff personally yet, but the screenshot showed, like, my mood was kinda and then below that, you know, they would show, well, here's how much exercise you've had over the left left seven days. And so things that all feed into, you know, your general well-being, which is what we've talked about back in that that wish list show. Yes. Last time around was to be start tying some of this data together, because it it means things.

Jeff: 23:14

Yeah. Oh, it does. Absolutely. It does. And I I like that. And we'll also note in unclear to me whether or not this is And this is actually something that Kirk Mac O'Hern posted on LinkedIn. It might have been on his on one of his blogs, but Kirk was talking about the journaling app and whether or not that was that's a new feature that's gonna be for sure in iOS. But whether or not that's gonna cross over the other the other OSs and his point was, if it's not, you know, everywhere, if you can't, you know, enter a a journal note on your Mac or on your iPad, it's only on the phone. It's gonna limit it its usefulness. So hopefully that that will show up across all devices. But that's another piece that's kinda tied to the the HealthApp. I really like what they're doing with those things. Yeah. On my watch, I like the you know, the meditate or the focus feature that kinda pops up everyone and goes, hey, you know, maybe you should start your day with a quiet moment, you know, just a minute, but it's nice. So I like those features. I like what what they're doing.

Tom: 24:16

Yeah. And speaking of watch watch OS ten, man, it's wild. They're already up to version ten of that. But, you know, some things there that I think you mentioned as well we were watching that. The the hiking stuff, they've improve that.

Jeff: 24:32

I'm gonna so look forward to that.

Tom: 24:34

Yeah. So that that looked really nice. I don't do that, but it I know for people who do it look pretty good. So always like to see those things come in. They've taken a kind of a different approach to some of the ways that you kinda bounce back and forth between app or surface information between apps with the smart stack. Which is very reminiscent of the Siri watch face and that you would have these little cards, if you will, and they're not exactly square. They're more rectangular, but And apparently, you you kinda scroll through those and with the premise being that there will be some intelligence built in given the name. Smart stack that, you know, it'll surface information at relevant times during the day. Like, you had a meeting coming up or It's time to exercise whatever it is. So looking forward to trying that out. They've changed some of the design language around some of the app the watch faces. Sorry. So, like, when you go in with the complication into and then into the app. So if you go into, like, the fitness app, and you see your ring information there. They kinda made that full screen. Mhmm. And that's, you know, so I can keep creeping up there a little bit. But bigger is better. I can actually see it. So so that part's okay. Won't try that. And I can't think of anything else specifically, and and we'll we'll get into it. Yeah. We can move out all summer to get

Jeff: 26:00

into to -- Correct. -- details of all this stuff. Yeah. And and these are obviously not the elephant in the room. These items. No. Into the room is the next thing that we're gonna get to, which neither of us have put our fat little fingers on. No. I'll speak for my own fingers. My own fingers are fat. It which is the the brand new VisionPRO headset. Yes. And, of course, haven't touched it, but we've got opinions.

Tom: 26:30

Of course, we do. We had opinions before it even came out.

Jeff: 26:35

Right. I did. In fact, I was relisting to an episode a little bit ago where you asked questions about stuff that was gonna come up. It was even before our WWDC wish list. And the first thing I said was, yeah, I don't know if I liked that thing. Like, you know, I

Tom: 26:52

think that's the point where I was, like, not talking about Siri.

Jeff: 26:55

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, I so let let me just say, you know, obviously, none of us have touched it, but I was pleasantly surprised by the interface. When I say that, though and and I've had, you know, there's several people that have used it that that, you know, we've both looked at video of, say, for example, Marcus Bradley. Who freaking brilliant, you know, hats off to you, Powell. We love you here at a basic AF. But he he was talking about how the way it followed his eyes, you know, and allowed him very easily just to just put two little fingers together gently, and it would actually open those apps. This is the first time I've seen any one of these headsets that I have not thought that the use case was under stupidity. Sorry. I don't have any opinions about this. But the all the other ones, the oculus, you know, whatever that is now, you know, the old metaverse where you can look at an avatar yourself. That stuff to me is like, I'm not interested.

Tom: 28:12

Right.

Jeff: 28:13

The way that this works the use case for the way the VisionPRO works. Man, I I like the idea. Here's my big problem. Is as soon as in you know, there's that one scene in the in the advertisement in the video at the end where it has the dad working in kitchen and his kids are there and his wife is there and he takes the goggles and puts them over his head and then starts interacting in that way. In his side. As soon as he understand that. That made me go, oh, no. You know, I'm a guy who when my kids were little, you know, and they're starting to get, you know, little iPads and stuff like that, We go to the grocery store, you left that in the car. Right? You know, you didn't when you're in the grocery store doing what you're gonna do, it's time to interact with people. For me, that feature at this point in time puts a distance between you and everybody else in the room that it makes me feel funny inside. And I mean that, like, it it I don't know. It it and not

Tom: 29:23

first girlfriends kiss funny. It's a different kind of funny. It ain't that one.

Jeff: 29:29

Yeah. No. No. So that one that one's kind of enjoyable.

Tom: 29:33

Yeah.

Jeff: 29:33

Yeah. I I I that's a thing that

Tom: 29:36

Yeah.

Jeff: 29:36

And for all the magic, that's something that for me just doesn't work.

Tom: 29:40

Yeah. I didn't feel like they missed really with anything else, but that particular one was like and everyone I've talked to that is kinda and I say everyone is five or six people, but but even, like, with

Jeff: 29:51

all your friends have times.

Tom: 29:52

That's more acquaintances on really only have a couple of friends. But even that yeah. I think it was I don't know. And if you podcasts I've been listening to, like, that that that one particular thing seems to be the unanimous. Yeah. We don't like that. But the rest of it's intriguing.

Jeff: 30:12

Very

Tom: 30:13

I think -- Yeah. -- so, I mean, you and I were both saying prior to this, that the headsets. And again, this was headsets to date, just warn of interest. No. I would like to try this, and I know it though. Okay. And I said that when we did it. Somebody had to come out and I'll probably be like, okay. Yeah. I wanna try it. And I do wanna try it. And I think I just need to figure out how to do that.

Jeff: 30:40

Yeah. And there are, you know, I can see there are some use cases that I can see where where it makes sense. Watching a movie, doing something like that, that I could I get it. You know, that's kind of a thing. The Right. I do have to say, well, I understand it and it actually makes sense. We have the cameras on the you know, on the inside projecting your eyeballs on the inside. Mhmm. You know, it's interesting.

Tom: 31:05

I I wanna see it in person. Because some of the pictures and stuff and, like, man, that creeps me out. But I think it it's probably one of those you see in your personality. Yeah. It still kinda creeps me out, but it is what it is.

Jeff: 31:19

The other thing that I've heard about this, and this is one of the things that I wondered. This is obviously in in normal Apple style very high quality build, which means like your iPhone, it doesn't feel like a piece of garbage. It's glass and metal, and it it it has some heft to it. John Gruber, which will have a link to what he said, in the in the show notes. But one of the things that he had to say is he only had it on for thirty minutes and he never ever felt like he didn't have the headset on.

Tom: 31:53

Right.

Jeff: 31:53

It's very front heavy. And and

Tom: 31:56

I think Frontline's daughter, VHD, said that too. Right? He

Jeff: 31:58

said Yeah.

Tom: 31:59

It's it's got some heft.

Jeff: 32:01

It does. Which you you know, I'm happy to hear that it's not made out of plastics, not garbage, not designed to be to be thrown away. But the other thing that I wonder and the reason I wonder is friend of mine's daughter was is no longer but was a helicopter pilot in the navy. And she had to wear, you know, when she was flying, they had to wear night vision goggles. That required counterweights for her because they're so heavy. They had to put counterweights on the back of it -- Mhmm.

Tom: 32:31

--

Jeff: 32:31

that you know, allowed it allowed her to be able to keep her head up without having to fight it all the time. But she started having neck problems

Tom: 32:37

--

Jeff: 32:37

Right.

Tom: 32:38

--

Jeff: 32:38

as a result of all the weight that was being put on her. And this is still one of those things where I think that that's gonna be that's gonna be an issue, you know, that that the weight of it is gonna be an issue. What I foresee in the magic I foresee in the future is something It's akin to the old Google Glass, you know, where you have a pair of glasses that you pop on. Still wouldn't want to wear glasses in the house for people, but where you have, you know, that kind of a that kind of a possibility. And that seems where I hope the future is going. It has and I said this to you, it this feels like the computer that was in minority report. Right. That was but that was like a wall, you know. Mhmm. But all worked with hand movements and stuff like that. That would be too much. I'd love that this is just a simple, you know, doesn't matter where it is. The the cameras pick up your fingers, tap in and and it follows your eyes to see what you're looking at, which is one of the things that was supposedly amazing. That's what what Bradley said. Yeah. But until, you know, I I I think the weight is gonna be a factor for long term use, and I think it's cool. I do wanna try it too. Not gonna you know, with the and the opportunity to do that. I think also one of the things that stood out to me was the calibration of it.

Tom: 34:05

Right.

Jeff: 34:06

So Gruber had two points on that. One was that, you know, it scanned you know, it it basically looked at his face and and was able to very quickly sit within a manner or a couple minutes. Map out everything that it needed to to see his eye movements. But the other thing that he said, he said, he uses corrective lenses, doesn't use contact lenses. And it wears glasses now. He used to wear contacts, but he just wears glasses. And within a matter of seconds, they were able to scan his scan his glasses. And then they put the lens inserts into into it. And that was a a quick deal. So that sounds like something that might be going on, you know, at the Apple Store as well.

Tom: 34:47

Yeah. It's definitely a bit of a a setup process. Yeah. Four thirties. But, you know, again, we're ways away. So what the setup process is early next year when it releases versus now, who's saying. But the the I imagine the face scanning and everything will still stay there because that's part of the fit and everything.

Jeff: 35:08

Right. But you do that with face ID now too. Yep. A phone, face ID.

Tom: 35:13

Yeah. And I think they use your I as the the unlock mechanism for this thing so they call it Which is an optic ID. Yeah. That that's pretty cool. And, I mean, they've packed so much tech into this thing. I mean, when they talk about the cameras on the outside of it, cameras on the inside, the displays inside that you actually look at the the sound the the way the battery connects the the the head straps of those things. And apparently, they're gonna have a a a whole bunch of different sizes for straps and things like that, at least from the early things they're telling people, and that has been reported anyway. But just so much into it that because one of the things that you mentioned with the the hand gestures. Right? Because there's there's no mouse Keyboard. You could pair that if you wanted to. When you're working with your Mac, they said you could pair a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse or trackpad. But for the Vision OS, which is what this will run. So it's a whole new operating system. There's it's hand and eyes. Voice. I think those are your three your three inputs. But they've got so many you know, they've got the cameras positioned around for the outside of it so that they, you know, you can rest your hands on your lap and not have to be you know, flailing your arms all over the place to to do the gestures which would get fatiguing as well. So I think just being able to sit there and, you know, comfortably, you know, tap your fingers for the click, you know, flip up for the the swiping and that kind of thing. I mean, they put a lot of thought into it. That's for sure.

Jeff: 36:53

Yeah. And I I I think the biggest piece of it going back to flail in your arms around is the fact that it is tracking you're tracking your eyes and really able to precisely see what it is that you're looking at on the display and highlight whatever it is in that particular case, which is I think that's where the magical piece comes in. That is kind of a magic you know, if you having not experienced it and only listened to or, you know, having listened to a red a variety of people. It's it's that seems to be where the magic is. And I think it was, again, Mark Bradley, that said that that he actually accidentally gently touched his two fingers together. Like, in some place, he didn't expect and dang it it did that. You know, it it handled or it selected whatever it is or open whatever it is that he had done that. So very sensitive and and really interesting in terms of the technology that must have gone into that. You know, it Right. Cameras down that point down below, cameras that are pointing out. The other thing I think they said that was pretty interesting was if somebody, you know, you're in the middle of doing some kind of computer work. If somebody enters the room, they kinda walk through the you know, whatever windows you have up and show up there, which is kind of impressive as well. It might be also a little disorienting. But,

Tom: 38:22

yeah, imagine you've got the headset on and you're watching a movie and, like, your kid strolls into the room and jumps in front of me and jumps scares. Through the headset. You know, jeez. About to kill me here. I've been yeah. And, you know, there've been other, I think, the Sony PSVR two, I think, is what it is. Let's talk to someone to work about that. I've never used it, but it's had some eye tracking stuff too. But I know with Marquez saying that, you know, it was magic. That's saying something because he tries all the stuff. Right? I mean Oh,

Jeff: 38:55

he does. Yes.

Tom: 38:56

So Is

Jeff: 38:57

that how he pronounces his name, by the way, that just screw up his name?

Tom: 39:00

I've heard both.

Jeff: 39:02

Okay. Good.

Tom: 39:02

So Yeah. It doesn't matter. He's

Jeff: 39:05

Yeah. He's not gonna listen to us anyways.

Tom: 39:07

No. No. He's a little busy. He's he's a little busy. But but seems like a super nice guy, so a favorite one. Oh, you'd love to have him.

Jeff: 39:14

Absolutely. Yeah, man. And we'll pronounce your name correctly, whatever it is.

Tom: 39:18

Yeah. We'll talk to

Jeff: 39:19

you on.

Tom: 39:19

PR person beforehand, make sure we get it

Jeff: 39:21

right.

Tom: 39:21

Yeah. Yeah. So they've got an m two processor in this thing. So -- Uh-huh. -- some of the I don't know if you saw any of these or not, but some of the early Mac rumors, nine to five Mac rumor stuff that they plucked from different places was that it would be tethered to your phone And I think where that may have come from is ends up you've got that battery pack tethered to

Jeff: 39:47

it. Yes.

Tom: 39:48

So that you can kinda draw the the connection there, but it's not. It's and in fact, Apple doesn't call this really a headset. It's a spatial computer.

Jeff: 39:57

Yeah. Which I kinda like spatial computing. And and that is when you see the demos, that is exactly what it is. You're doing computing as opposed to fighting with virtual swords in the middle of your living.

Tom: 40:13

I mean, that could be fun too.

Jeff: 40:15

Yeah. You could probably do that with this. Yeah.

Tom: 40:18

Yeah. Probably. But, you

Jeff: 40:19

know, it's it it the part of the pun. The vision for this feels way different than any of the other devices that I've seen. Again, I've I've not I've been so not interested in any of these that I haven't looked at. Right. You know, I've I've never put a single one on.

Tom: 40:38

Like, almost bought a quest. And how do you mean Oh, you didn't? Yeah. Because I was well, it was more of a oh, the kids don't listen. So it was more of a desperation thing I was running out of ideas for them for Christmas. And I was like, oh, I could just get him a headset. And so I kinda floated back, hey, what do you guys think about that? I tried at a friend's house, not so great. I was like, damn. So they're not that idea to go. So m two processor --

Jeff: 41:02

Mhmm.

Tom: 41:02

-- they have a new chip in there. Yes. R one which seems to be the kind of the key piece of that latency and some of the things that some people experience with headsets where they become a little disoriented, a little notches, and the reports are for for the folks who were there got to try for the half hour demo. And and let me know if Gruber said anything about that. But the guy from nine to five Mac, Chance Miller did it, and and this one I thought was interesting because he stated in his write up and again, we'll link to all this stuff. That he's very prone to motion sickness, so planes, cars, all that kind of stuff. Mhmm. But he had none whatsoever with the headset. In his thirty minute demo. So I think that's promising. And some other people said that this is the same thing. Ben Maren reported that as well that it was he didn't have any of that. And that's because it's so tight on that. With such low latency that that really brings together that effect of that spatial computing or whatever you wanna call it because He's like, it's obviously, it's not as same as having no screen there, but it's pretty close. And and and that's part

Jeff: 42:21

of it.

Tom: 42:21

Right? Because if if the refresh rate on the screens you're looking at with the latency and everything, don't, you know, aren't where they need to be, then you start to it kinda breaks the illusion.

Jeff: 42:31

Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. And according to Gruber, one of the things that he said was that you don't look see it doesn't seem like you're looking at screens at all, right, when you're inside the headset. It looks like in in in I'll just read it verbatim. It it looks like reality albeit through something like a pair of safety glasses or a large face covering clear shield. So no borders, no indication that that there is, you know, anything other than the outside outside when you move, it moves with you. I think that's where that disorientation comes from, just like you said, the refresh rate. So there's they're doing super, super high speed video processing, which make sure under this is gonna come up to, you know, end up in other devices as well, you know, develop for this, but show up in other places.

Tom: 43:19

You know, and I'll mention that real quick. There are so many traces of other devices that led to this. Like, it has a digital crown.

Jeff: 43:29

It's like, oh,

Tom: 43:30

where have we seen that? And and just so it's it's such an Apple thing, I guess -- Yeah. -- because they, you know, they control so much of it and so much of it's custom chips and things like that. But but just as an outsider and, you know, a nerd, it's it's just kinda cool to see. Oh, yeah. Look, you now you can retrace those things. I'd be like, yeah. Yeah. Everything had a reason.

Jeff: 43:54

Yeah. There's a path. Yeah. Always always a path. Definitely. So interesting to look at when you get yours, I'll try to visit, call it down. Yeah.

Tom: 44:06

The wife said I should get it for the podcast. She's like, how can you talk about it if you don't have it?

Jeff: 44:11

She's right. She is.

Tom: 44:12

Of course. She also says she only live once can't take it with you when you go, and that that's a little dangerous.

Jeff: 44:17

Right. Didn't see up the life insurance post.

Tom: 44:19

Yeah. It's good to go maybe. Yeah. And but I'm assuming it'll have the sweet fourteen day return policy, so that'll be

Jeff: 44:28

Yeah. That's that's true. And and let's also point out that this thing's not showing up for basically, I would say, three quarters is is what we're looking at sometime. Early in the second quarter of twenty twenty four. So think about it, dream about it, maybe play with it all you want. Yeah. You you're not gonna get your hands on one of these. I don't even know what you want. Are getting their hands.

Tom: 44:55

Right. I wonder if they'll get, like, some weird kit of hardware that, you know, has the the emulator on it -- Mhmm. -- and and just do it that way. Like when they did the Apple Silicon transition, I think they got remember what they got with that. Maybe I'm thinking back to the power p c to Intel or something. They've done so many of these transitions where they give you these kinda thrown together pieces of hardware. I had to get you through it. Good enough for now. So it gets two hours battery life has that little battery that you you take with you, which ain't much, but, you know,

Jeff: 45:24

can be plugged in. You know, if you're Right. So if you're sitting watching a movie, you've got the And

Tom: 45:29

you're gonna have a stack of batteries just, you know, hook up the next one and, you know, take a break. I guess, Yeah. So so you get the two hours. The thing they said starts at three thousand four hundred and ninety nine dollars.

Jeff: 45:44

Mhmm.

Tom: 45:46

If you need the the optical inserts, that'll be some more money. Mhmm.

Jeff: 45:51

Mhmm.

Tom: 45:52

So I imagine it's probably a few hundred bucks, couple hundred bucks three, four hundred. I don't know. But seems like it's gonna be something that's

Jeff: 45:59

Knowing Apple, it's gonna

Tom: 46:00

This whole experience. That's what it says. Yeah. Use ICE Optical inserts. So this ain't gonna be cheap with it being a computer. Right? So it's not tied to your phone, it's not tied to anything else. You know, you can kinda see it okay. So it starts at thirty four ninety nine. How much storage do you get? How much does it matter? And then you scale up from there. Right? So if you've got, are they gonna do it like an iPad where it's sixty four, one hundred and twenty eight, two fifty six, five twelve. So I'm curious to see how that looks when they get to that point. Like, what configuration options do you have? Like like, how much storage would you need? Like, yeah. Know because you gotta have some because you got operating system, you got apps, you have games, right, because they said the Apple Arcade stuff will will come over. Right. So I don't know. Sixty four minimum.

Jeff: 46:53

Maybe here's where I'm wondering whether or not and I I wondered this at the time that we were, you know, we were watching between the keynote whether or not this is gonna be way more tightly integrated with Apple's iCloud storage. So

Tom: 47:08

-- Right. --

Jeff: 47:09

open up a pages document and it's on demand bang right there.

Tom: 47:13

Right.

Jeff: 47:13

And as soon as you close it, that stuff gets shooshed back up too.

Tom: 47:18

It has its own Wi Fi. I mean, you can't do your Wi Fi, and you go from there. So, you know, but, you know, I can see, hey, I wanna, you know, store my stuff. Some of it locally.

Jeff: 47:30

So Locally.

Tom: 47:31

Yeah. So but at least thirty five hundred dollars to to get in the door, But with everything they have packed in it, like, I don't think that's like, it's expensive. Right? I'm not saying that, but I don't think it's outrageous. For for what it is being a first gen with everything they've packed into it. It sounds like from some of the analysts that It's gonna be hard to make in large quantities anyway for a while because there's so much new stuff in it. I think they'll sell everyone they make easily. I still and this goes back to what we've been talking about for since we well, before we started doing this show, the podcast as a whole. On a regular basis, what would I use it for?

Jeff: 48:14

Mhmm.

Tom: 48:15

And I don't know. I don't they didn't really have that answer. In what they show. They showed a lot of interesting things and a lot of cool things. I I didn't see, like, the killer feature. That was, like, holy crap. That's a must have at this point. A lot of really good ones.

Jeff: 48:30

Correct. And and that is a big that's a big question. I mean, I immediately saw the use case for an iPhone. And that was at a point in time when I was about ready to say, you know what? I don't even need a cell phone.

Tom: 48:45

Right? Now if you go back So Since twenty twenty three, forty years. Shit. You know, he really Were you born in that for yeah. I was I was I was I was ten. Ten or eleven. But you could kinda say the same thing for PCs back then.

Jeff: 49:04

Oh, right. They were very expensive. Sixty four was around people. You know, they were a hobbyist. Nobody needs Right?

Tom: 49:09

It was a hobbyist thing. Like, you built you got your parts, you built it, and they used to have little gloves you would go to and they would, you know, you assemble your PC. There's a bunch of dwarks like us. Right? So but

Jeff: 49:21

You make it fun of me? Yes. Okay. Good.

Tom: 49:23

But myself at the same time. And so I think this is one of those things where it's they're even I think Apple is kinda like

Jeff: 49:31

Yeah.

Tom: 49:31

I don't know. And, like, I don't know. Did you see the clip from, I think, good morning America with Robin Roberts. She interviewed Tim Cook and she asked him, you know, this is a lot of money. Do you think people will buy it? And I'm paraphrasing a bit. And he was straightforward. He's like, you know, I don't know. It that's gonna be up to everyone's, you know, individual financial situation and things like that. We think it's, you know, obviously, worth dealing. And so I think even them or or they're still Yeah. Yeah. So let's throw that out there. The watch was kind of the same way. Like, they remembered they showed all those silly apps in the like, the series zero and they even had the edition that was, like, ten or seventeen thousand dollars, whatever crazy amount that was.

Jeff: 50:17

Right. And I think so let's look at me. Now, I'm not gonna buy one of these things out of the box. It can see no reason to do it. I did buy an Apple Watch out of the box. That first one and gave it up after six months. We've talked about that. That's been

Tom: 50:32

--

Jeff: 50:33

Yep. -- been a subject here. And it was I I had one of the reasons I gave it up, there was no identifiable value. Beyond having a watch on my wrist. And on the occasions that I was walking someplace and needed on wrist, directions, which I liked, it was good for that. But other than that, it was an annoyance. You know, that's what it was for me. I have now been wearing the new Apple Watch, and I've been wearing it for six months longer than that now. Seven, almost eight months, I've been I've been worrying that. And it has added value. And I think that's exactly what it is. It Apple hadn't quite figured out what the watch was at that point in time. And and they have, to a great extent, figure out what it is now.

Tom: 51:28

Yeah. They're locked in

Jeff: 51:29

as more value in that way. Right? And I think that's that's gonna be the VisionPRO as well. Yeah. I think there will they'll iterate as they always do. And they'll figure out a way to make it make it into something insanely great.

Tom: 51:44

It's possible. And it's Yeah. I think so.

Jeff: 51:47

Like I said, I see that what where I didn't where I didn't before see any possible reason. Why this would be good. As soon as soon as I saw the UI and what you could actually do with that UI and the way that it was there, it wasn't just some, you know, tech kink. You know, it wasn't some some, you know, something where you get to throw it on and be able to watch stuff.

Tom: 52:13

Stuff. Stuff.

Jeff: 52:15

Yeah. So I I I can see the use case.

Tom: 52:21

Right?

Jeff: 52:21

And I'm impressed by that. Not for me at this point in time, but I can see the use case, and I'm excited to see where it goes.

Tom: 52:28

Yeah. And I I think MKBHD talked on it too. I was talking with a guy who worked about it prior to seeing his video. And I think for me personally something that I would be very interested in, thirty five hundred dollars interested in? Probably not, but by the time we get to you know, I don't know how they're going on. To to mark the series four whatever. You know, five, six, seven years down the road when it's because they started with the VisionPRO.

Jeff: 52:58

Mhmm.

Tom: 52:59

So that leaves vision vision something, right,

Jeff: 53:03

roll over.

Tom: 53:03

It's gonna be

Jeff: 53:04

three times the size.

Tom: 53:05

Jesus. God. And it comes with a neck brace. And a strap, full body -- Right. -- decompression strap. But one of the things that would be interesting. And it's it's the other pieces that would obviously have to fall into place with this. But to be able to virtually buy tickets to some event, whether that's a,

Jeff: 53:28

you know, a concert concert,

Tom: 53:31

you know, baseball game, football game, basketball, Formula one, whatever it is. And, you know, at a fraction of the price, you would pay to actually go there because it's not gonna be the same, but then get to pick where you wanna sit. I think today I'll

Jeff: 53:44

sit down. Don't have anybody spilling their beer on you.

Tom: 53:46

Yeah. Right? You don't have the drunk asses to deal with.

Jeff: 53:49

But you could still have that Well,

Tom: 53:51

it's more fun at home. A bit. And, you know, drug strangers aren't always good. But but that is compelling.

Jeff: 53:59

Yeah, it is.

Tom: 53:59

Right? And like he said, I think MKB. She said, yeah, put me courtside at the Lakers game for twenty bucks. And that's all extra income. Apple would take their thirty percent in the rest go over to the league.

Jeff: 54:12

Yeah.

Tom: 54:13

That would be great. Heck, that might be good enough to mostly kill sports. Like going there in person because the experience isn't good. Like, I stopped going --

Jeff: 54:20

Right.

Tom: 54:20

-- because it's overpriced. Parking's overpriced. People are obnoxious. You know, I'm getting old too because that's probably probably a cranky old guy yelling at the clouds.

Jeff: 54:29

But there is there

Tom: 54:30

there is that. Yes. And I and I won't deny it. But but that's a compelling use case I think as they continue, like, I think that what they showed with, like, the Mac desktop being able to all of a sudden, you've got a hundred inch display you can work on. Yeah. Is is interesting. And, you know, just some of the things we've already talked about need to be figured out down the road to make those a little more easily and durable I think, like, really an extra rain and eye strain. Because I think, you know, you put something on your face and it makes that seal, you're gonna start to get a little sweaty.

Jeff: 55:02

No. I didn't know that about

Tom: 55:04

it. Right. And it's like, well, how long can you tolerate that? Depends. I mean, if it's you know, and you start watching movies and they're they become super realistic and you start to sweat even more because you're getting amped up because of the movie or the game, you know, is really intense or whatever. So I don't know. It it's interesting. I think it's gonna be fun to watch.

Jeff: 55:22

Yes. Definitely that.

Tom: 55:24

And I'll see if I can clear off some space on the app card and maybe try one for a week and send it back.

Jeff: 55:30

There you go. That sounds perfect.

Tom: 55:33

I'll let you know so you can plan your trip.

Jeff: 55:35

Now I'm driving down. As soon as soon as I'm hopping in my car, the moment the moment that you get the notification that it's showing up at your door on driving down. And and you can buy me dinner

Tom: 55:46

Great. Great. I won't have any money left. So it'd be

Jeff: 55:49

That's okay.

Tom: 55:50

Menu. Yeah. McChicken or something. Great.

Jeff: 55:53

So as the car talk, guys used to say, and actually, to a guy named Tom, we've done a perfectly good job of wasting another hour of your time.

Tom: 56:03

We did. And we appreciate you hanging out with us.

Jeff: 56:06

Yeah. We do. We realized that most of you probably

Outro Music: 56:10

wasted thirty five minutes.

Tom: 56:12

That's okay. I feel like this is kind of our own little therapy sessions to an extent.

Jeff: 56:16

You and me, Tom. Yeah. We're besties. Well, that's

Tom: 56:19

what we are.

Jeff: 56:19

You say one once every two weeks. Right. It's nice to see your face. Yeah. I'm gonna go pull another head out of the freezer.

Tom: 56:27

Jesus. God. That got dark. Alright.

Jeff: 56:32

Alright. As a reminder, If you want to contact us and we'd really love it. If you do, you can hit us up at feedback at basic a f show dot com or on the web you can see all of everything we have at basic a f show dot com. Tom, people can reach you at

Tom: 56:51

Tommy Anderson on Twitter, tommy patterson dot com on the web. That's

Jeff: 56:56

about it. And you'll find me at raisepoint on Twitter and at raisepoint dot s d f dot mastodon dot whatever the heck it is on Mastodon. Just a reminder, you would do us a great bit of favor if you made sure to subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts and like our podcast there as well.

Tom: 57:21

Yes. Leave a rating because we've stayed consistent. We mentioned this last show. We've get we get one rating per show. That's a rough We

Jeff: 57:28

did another one.

Tom: 57:29

And I think this is show eleven.

Jeff: 57:31

This is show eleven. And by the way, my favorite number, my soccer jersey, basketball jersey all the way through. High school. Currently, even is number eleven.

Tom: 57:39

Oh. So somebody has

Jeff: 57:41

We've done something good. Themusic by psychokinetics in a reminder that the front man or one of the front people for psychokinetics CLC seven has a new album album out. We'll have a link to that in the in the show notes. All our podcast a podcast podcast Our hard cashed artwork is by Randall Martin design. I'm a hot mess. Thank god. Nobody listens to the end of this. Yeah. So Randall does great work. Yes. We hope you go check out what he what he does, and we probably should do him a favor. And mister Celsius seven a favor. Push those notes to the front of the show. Alright. Tell me.

Tom: 58:22

Alright. Is that it? My friend?

Jeff: 58:23

We burned another hour.

Tom: 58:25

We did. Thanks again everyone for being here and being part of this with us. If you have any questions on any of this new stuff, come out or if you've throwing the betas on and got any feedback on that, let us know. Otherwise, have a good rest of your day. Good rest of your night, and we will talk to you next time.

Jeff: 58:41

See you.

Outro Music: 58:49

I don't wanna know what legitimate factions do, but for the least you wanna try to still sell how you improve because at the moment, how you move on. I'm just like you. That goes fast.