Intro

Jeff B 0:00

to them useless as two sticks all right , walk back .

Tom A 0:20

Everybody is a new episode of basic a , fb a , f . Back at it again . Tom a , jeff b . Don't as little dance there . You can see it like you , but I can . But it is friday night . Is the friday night ?

Jeff B 0:32

chic down right we're dancing , we're dancing time , we're doing all the things you should be doing something friday night . I don't know if it was a drinking and it sounds smoking , I'd say screw it , but we're not I see the show's kicking off , just like the pre-show nonsense did right that , which is a good thing there's nothing wrong with that .

Tom A 0:49

No , you guys say that we have eleven minutes out takes .

Jeff B 0:55

I'm already interrupting you , it's only that it's were worth thirty seconds in . Alright , I'm shut my mouth now .

Tom A 0:59

We're really thirteen minutes and but only a minute of the show he's . So welcome back everybody . Thanks again for being here . We do appreciate very much and if you're a new and if stumbled upon this little thing , we do appreciate you checking us out and giving us a shot . We hope to earn a spot on your playlist . If you've got any feedback at any point , feel free to email us its feedback at basic af show dot com . The website's the same thing we can peruse the entire catalog is .

Jeff B 1:25

Jeff likes to say mm-hmm , you want to say it sure peruse the entire catalog with lots of good shows you can go back to uh , don't just start here who I like .

Tom A 1:36

That's good with this episode nice , which is , I think , seventeen we're up to .

Jeff B 1:40

We're seventeen years old , I mean seventeen shut . I wish way past that .

Tom A 1:47

Yeah , as I got reminded , it worked the other day , so that was nice . Oh , good for you . Yeah , yeah , tom , you're so old . Yeah , thanks what nineteen-year-old ?

Jeff B 1:53

uh , I'm just a co-worker at all .

Tom A 1:55

Yeah , really yeah yeah , oh well , um , I mean , I wasn't alive , but still yeah , right , but I still hurts not as much as I used to .

Tom A 2:06

I'm kind of getting over it . Uh , so , basic af show dot com is the website with all the episodes . Of course , apple podcast spotify all the other players as well . If you would like to get some additional commentary , tips , tricks , app recommendations , I send out a little newsletter every now and then . You can get to that at tomfandersoncom . Uh , like to have you sign up there . That'd be great . Yes , it would all right . So this show we've got a couple of things . We're going to roll through a couple of news updates , uh , some a little bit of topicality up front and , uh , we'll roll through that and then we're going to talk about the ipad a little bit .

Jeff B 2:47

Yeah , sounds like fun ipad and maybe a little beta beta talk yes , beta updates , as those are winding down yes , absolutely true . So

USENET - Don’t Call It A Comeback

Jeff B 2:56

, tom , the big thing speaking of old I'm not talking about myself , of course um usenet is back . Remember usenet , tom , I do , I do too where you why don't get ?

Tom A 3:11

mad when people say I'm old because I am .

Jeff B 3:14

I remember these things actually , technically , I don't think that usenet was ever gone , usenet being the original , uh , one of the original social networks , if you want to call it that all text based um , where you , uh , you signed up with your what was it ? 19-bot modem . You know the squawk , squawk , squawk . You get on and somebody picks up the phone and screws you up so you can't talk on it anymore . But I need the phone , yeah , yeah , don't pick it up . What do you mean ? You picked it up ? Uh , what days ? Yeah , those were the wonderful days and and some people listen this is gonna go . What are you talking about ?

Tom A 3:54

don't , don't , don't , don't , click off of us just yet , well , well , yeah , I wouldn't know what I'm doing , right , hang around , hang around and in we're gonna talk about the time I had the hemorrhoids , jesus um I know you're welcome .

Jeff B 4:07

Now they're tuning out , for sure anyway , usenet was a uh text based . It still is a text based , essentially social network . It is actually the place that I learned to program in lisp , so let's talk about that . That was about 5 000 years ago when I was taking a program in class . But it's a uh . It's basically basically a message board where you can go get information , pull down information from there .

Jeff B 4:38

There were apparently a bunch of clients as the , the internet or the computers got more graphical , but my recollection of that was using the terminal application , popping on a once I was connected to the internet , feel my dial-up modem , putting in some usenet information terminal and then being able to run commands to see the information that was sitting there . So all the uh insidious stuff that you see on the major social networks now twitter , uh , which is no longer called that , but I'm not going to call it what that guy calls it , um facebook , any of those other places um , all of that kind of started on usenet and you can get on it . Now there are a couple different uh clients apparently for every os and you've got the ability to uh start looking at things like recartssfwritten and recartssffandom not exciting as that you know , tom , I miss those days .

Jeff B 5:43

Well , a little nostalgic .

Tom A 5:45

So I got introduced to those . Well , I think I stumbled onto those through the so kind of my introduction to everything was the online services , right , so American online Compuserve Prodigy , they all had those . And these were also called news groups . News groups is correct , yeah , and they were kind of segmented out by topic . So you would have tech topics , you could have writing topics , history , general news , whatever the case was , and you would jump on there and they were . You know , like Jeff said , they were definitely precursors to some of the social things we have now . I think probably most like Reddit yeah .

Tom A 6:29

Yeah , I think so , and the thing was , though then there wasn't like you didn't get , the algorithm pushes to amplify certain things , because it was . That's a shame it really is so sorry to hear that .

Tom A 6:43

Yeah , those things suck , and I think it was just messages like you would go and you would see the message and then you would kind of see them as they were . So if they were a thread , you would see it in sequential order , and there was , there were some etiquettes that you had to follow . You had to make sure you put your new message at the bottom on the other message so people could see what was leading you to say what you said , or at you know , or even at the top , but don't dare put it in the middle somewhere , because people would still yell at you . They would yeah . So yeah , it's interesting that it's kind of making its way back .

Jeff B 7:18

Yeah , it is interesting . Artisanal computing , yeah , and I'd be interested to see . I have not hopped on yet . I might find myself a use net client , just for giggles , to go out and have a look . But I do wonder if it's still not algorithmically pushing garbage towards you . So maybe it's a little like make it bear in your bathtub . You know , it's maybe not great , but it's your bear , you can enjoy it .

Tom A 7:53

Yeah , just like that . So , there's your history lesson for today . Kids , You're welcome .

Jeff B 7:58

You're welcome so two old farts doing a show . That's us . We're changing the name next episode yeah .

Tom A 8:04

Two old farts . And speaking of old things , that's what ? Yeah , that are history .

2017 MacBook Pro Vintage Status

Tom A 8:10

Apple has added the 2017 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar to the vintage list .

Jeff B 8:15

Man . You know that's kind of early , feels like , does seem quick . Yeah , sunsetted that one a little quick . One of the things about that is that there's still people I know that are using them Colin , who I've said by name , so I won't say who he is , but Colin , who I know I'm actually a child of mine I don't usually give names he had one of those and loved it . To be fair , though , he said he almost never used the touch bar . So probably right that it's gone , but it seems what are we talking about ? That came out in 2017 . We're now in 2023 . Five years that's sorry . Six years , because I can't do math Typically feels like I'd have to go back and look if I really wanted to and see whether or not it's more like eight years is usually the cutoff point for that , but I bet you tend to one , and one of the reasons that they do shuttle those things off to a vintage is they no longer want to make parts for them , so that touch bar is gone . I don't think we'll see it come back .

Tom A 9:28

Still can't believe they have that 13-inch MacBook Pro with touch bar Still for sale . That M2 ? Still for sale .

Jeff B 9:36

Is it a touch bar one ? I didn't realize that .

Tom A 9:39

Maybe I'm wrong , maybe I think you're probably still right , but I don't . It's a head scratcher while they still have that .

Jeff B 9:46

Yeah .

Tom A 9:49

Because we were buying those up until this past January , I think it was , or spring , yeah and then we hopped on the airs yeah , we hopped on the airs at that point , and so , yeah , I didn't want to keep buying them . But I think part of the reason they do it is it has a pro name on it , for whatever reason , but the 14s and 16s are a little out of reach budget-wise for some places For us right , we couldn't go to the 14 and 16 , because they're definitely not 16 .

Tom A 10:20

But the 14 is even , you know , would stretch things very , very thin , yeah . And so I wonder about that . But yeah , it's still around . And I wonder too like I don't want to put this how excited Apple might be to just rid themselves of all of the Intel baggage .

Jeff B 10:39

Yeah , Well , that goes without saying , I think . Is that the last Intel device ? I think it is .

Tom A 10:43

No , no , they've got 18s , 19s , I mean , they're all 13-inch , 15-inch models .

Jeff B 10:49

Oh , I'm sorry as far as what they're selling , oh .

Tom A 10:54

I want to say it is , Since they did the pro , the Mac Mini when they put the M2 Pro , and that that got rid of that high-end Intel-based Mac Mini that they had and iMac's been M1 for 12 years now . But yeah , I think it is . I think that might be Okay .

Jeff B 11:18

So , who knows , maybe that's part of the deal , but yeah , seems to have one of those .

Tom A 11:22

You're not in any immediate need to go out and buy something else . But Sonoma will be the last major Mac OS update that you get . But you'll still get security updates , probably for another one or two years , so a couple years .

Jeff B 11:37

You're okay for now . You can ride that thing for a little longer .

Tom A 11:39

Yep , you certainly can , Absolutely true .

Jeff B 11:42

All right , cool , cool . So goodbye , 2017 MacBook Pro , peace out . Touchboard . Yeah , peace , we had a little bit of an announcement this week , jeff . What is the announcement ?

Tom A 11:56

Tom ?

Apple Announces Wonderlust Event

Tom A 11:57

Surprising , no one . There's a new iPhone coming out in September . What Yep ? So the event ? What Wunderlust on September 12th ? One o'clock Eastern time . New phones watches probably some watch bands .

Jeff B 12:13

Yeah , speaking of watches , one interesting idea that came up about those watches is that the next watch is going to be 3D printed , which is interesting .

Tom A 12:26

It is , at least I don't know what that says .

Jeff B 12:28

Maybe that saves a lot of wasted metal , although Apple's pretty good at not wasting that kind of stuff . But that's kind of interesting . I like the idea that that's 3D printed . I am definitely looking forward to the phone . I'm not going to be updating my watch , although there's some rumor perhaps that we might have a darker model , ultra , so something in the space gray realm or something around there .

Jeff B 12:51

I don't know I'm pretty happy with the one I have . The titanium that I have is pretty pretty still , yeah , yeah , so we might see something like that . But yeah , as you're right , it comes as no surprise . This is Christmas in September , as it always is , or Hanukkah , depending on .

Tom A 13:08

Yeah , whatever you want it to be , doesn't matter we do all of those things .

Jeff B 13:14

But yeah , it's not a surprise and , looking forward to it , I plan to get the next phone .

Tom A 13:21

Anything in particular you're looking or hoping for on the phone , since you're going to be picking one up .

Jeff B 13:29

No , you know , I have this tendency to avoid all the speculation about what might be , mostly because you know that two days after the wanderlust announcement , maybe one day we're going to get , well , what we wish we had in the latest iPhone 17 .

Jeff B 13:54

Right , and then the next one's going to be this . It's like , yeah , I don't have any . Yeah , pay attention , I'm always looking forward to new camera capabilities . That is the camera that is with me most often . I take the majority of my photographs now with the camera , so I definitely look forward to some of those options . Other than that , I couldn't think of anything more that I want , which is kind of ridiculous , but I don't know . Is there anything that ? First of all , are you a year after year upgrade , or every ?

Tom A 14:31

two year upgrade . I typically do every two , yeah .

Jeff B 14:34

So this is my two year cycle . That's the other piece of it , so I'm on that myself .

Tom A 14:39

Is there anything ?

Jeff B 14:41

you're hoping it has .

Tom A 14:44

Not really . You have a 14 currently . I've got a 14 pro .

Jeff B 14:48

Yeah .

Tom A 14:48

And so the always on display . I got that . With that , Got the dynamic island thing on the front , which is useful .

Jeff B 15:00

Yeah .

Tom A 15:01

I can't say I use it a whole lot , cause I typically don't use my phone a whole lot , like for extended periods where I need to be monitoring what's up there and that thing , but it is handy and I think it's it's a playful feature to add .

Jeff B 15:17

And there's something to be said for that , by the way just certain that's fun , doesn't ?

Tom A 15:22

have to be amazing you know technological breakthrough which could be whimsical and playful and fun , but no , otherwise , I mean I'm really happy with the one I have . The battery life has been pretty good for me . I know there were some articles , maybe a week or two ago or before , there was write up about the battery health for some of the 14 seems lower than then you might think it would be for it being , you know , only a year old or something . But I haven't had that issue . I checked mine . Mine's still in good shape , so but yeah , I've been happy with it . There's something that I haven't still been able to put my finger on with the photos that they feel over processed . I even tried some with the app that that you suggested , hey , yeah , and that , honestly , I didn't see too much of a difference .

Tom A 16:15

Really interesting , and so now I will throw a little bit of a caveat to that is , I have started shooting more with the Sony .

Jeff B 16:26

And so .

Tom A 16:27

I don't know , if you know , I'm seeing pictures from it . It's like , oh wow , those are keep zooming , keep zooming , and they're very clear , so that that could be coloring my perspective a little bit .

Jeff B 16:40

I gotta say the same thing though the and I . It's mostly in the photos app , and what's really weird about it is when I take those photos and do any editing directly in the photos app , I'm noticing that it looks one way when I finish editing it and when I click done and it saves it , it looks a different way , and I don't know whether that's me being stupid . Look at that , look on your face .

Tom A 17:04

I was saying that that's not good Dork , or you , because I'm a dork it's like you edit it to look a certain way and then you click done and it doesn't look that way . Yeah , and I'm not great .

Jeff B 17:14

I haven't thought about doing a screen recording . When I do that and it's typically photos I have taken using the photos app gone in and processed and brought back . Anything that I'm doing with halide now , which that has become the default , with that nice little double finger tap that I that I do in the back of the phone that brings that app right up . That's pretty much all I'm using for photos , unless I have a quick one off or , you know , somebody's taken pictures of a group of people and I'm handing the phone to somebody I don't want them to have to , you know you know it's this right , but I was noticing , noticing that and it would be interesting to see .

Jeff B 17:55

One of the things that's nice about halide is it takes camera raw Right , so it takes , it takes those kinds of photos . Apple does , I think , have raw capabilities built into the photo , into the camera as well . But yeah , I've seen similar things and I don't know if it's because I've selected a particular photo style .

Tom A 18:14

Yeah , that's what I thought too , and where I noticed it was like well , you know , we went to the beach back in June and I took the phone .

Tom A 18:21

You're still tan , Tom , Well you know it's summer's fading , but I got to keep it going . But I took the Sony as well and when I was and I could see it in the photos app , right , I'm looking through the photos and I'm like , oh , there's one the Sony took , oh , there's one the phone took . Why are the colors look so strange and like this what you just said .

Tom A 18:40

I thought I had the photographic style selected , so I actually went in to the settings there and play with that and it wasn't . It was just on the standard setting . And so I don't know , I don't know if it's a software thing or if it's just one of those things that once you see it it's hard to unsee it . And it's not necessarily bad , it's just different . So you know it . They're not terrible pictures by any means , but they're no , they're , they just look a little bit over processed .

Jeff B 19:10

Little punchy yeah .

Tom A 19:12

And fuzzy and little grainy in places and on the phone they look okay . It's usually when you put them up on the Mac and you start to actually look at them at a bigger size . Yeah , these are so great .

Jeff B 19:23

Yeah , we'll see Again . Who knows what they do . There's a lot of super processing like you said going on . Yeah , it's all computational these days , so yeah , and part of that is you know you don't have lenses that actually can do the things that a lens like on your Sony can do . Where you've got physical , physical lenses that you're playing with , that you adjust and that adjusts , you know what it is and how it is that you're seeing things .

Tom A 19:48

So , who knows , maybe your sensors , all , kinds of stuff and it's you know , and to be perfectly clear , I mean the photo quality we get from phones these days is fantastic . Oh right , I mean it's iPhones . It's , you know , some of the Android top tier phones to great photos as well . So it's , and that's the one you have with you . And you know I'm not going to carry the Sony around . Special occasion I'll take it , maybe , and even then I don't use it a ton .

Jeff B 20:17

No right In what's the best camera to have is the one that's with you .

Jeff B 20:24

It's the old adage , you know , doesn't matter which one you have , as long as you have one . Yeah , interesting , be interesting to see , and I we're going to get some excuse me , USB-C connections , I think , on this , this phone as well . It's probably means I need to buy more cables , owed to joy , actually , you know what ? That's not true , and this is something I'll pop up . So when I got all my stuff stolen , one of the things that I picked up this is giving us content for months and I'm not bitter .

Jeff B 20:55

I'm not bitter . It's been a year almost , but I'm not bitter . One of the things that I ended up getting is Apple sells a bag safe charger that flips open . One is for the watch and one is for the phone and if you're using those , if you're using those kinds of chargers , then you won't need to get a special cable for all the places that you go . That's one of the things I'm really pleased about . Thank you , thieves . Wherever you are , I'm sure you're listening to this podcast , because that was actually a great purchase , great for when I travel . Fold it up and it's not again another cable like the Apple Watch charging cable and that . So if you're using any of the , using any of the MagSafe charging capabilities the cordless charging that's available it's a lot . Don't feel what's that ? Yeah , I do like a lot too . You don't need to worry about that .

Tom A 21:53

It's a good , all right , anything else ? Other cases , tom , I'm looking for watch bands . Because I want to spend a few more hundred dollars but I feel like we're due for some new bands for the ultra yeah you're not here . We haven't gotten any right that are specific to it .

Jeff B 22:16

No , you're right .

Tom A 22:17

Of course you can always use the other ones . They don't . You know , they look okay , but they're not . They don't quite . They're not ultra man Well , neither am I so there's a blast , so we'll see if we get some new watch bands . I'd be happy with that .

Jeff B 22:33

Yeah , I would like that little disappointed and we'll talk about betas maybe a little bit later , but I am on all the betas and all the things now the watch faces on the beta . I don't know if they're gonna do some other ones , but I'm not Feeling it . Mm-hmm , charlie bounds cute . There's another one , that's okay . I'd like some watch faces .

Tom A 22:54

Yeah , that's an ongoing thing .

Jeff B 22:57

Yeah , there's just don't know .

Tom A 23:00

Seems like even if there was , you know , a third-party watch face and they had to approve each one because , you know I'm sure they don't want copyright stuff and that kind of thing , and they don't even have to be third-party . I think if they're not going to do third-party , then Apple takes on the responsibility , I think , of providing More and better watch faces .

Jeff B 23:18

Yeah , and they could do that a couple times a year , I think .

Tom A 23:20

so it's an easy , an easy upgrade , even sell , some People would buy it . I'm not saying I'd like it , but people would buy it . People would buy it . Yeah , right , especially you know , 99 cents , 299 , whatever , yeah .

Jeff B 23:39

Call me up to that ID in their head yeah save a spot for me . Good , good for you . You're welcome .

Tom A 23:46

I have to spend money on other stuff , yep , so you have been running

Jeff’s Update on the Betas

Tom A 23:49

some betas I have , I have .

Jeff B 23:52

I've been running all the betas on all except the computer we're on .

Tom A 23:56

Which is why I have you on FaceTime on the phone , because I can't see you in the recording .

Jeff B 24:01

Actually , on FaceTime right , because I couldn't update . Update this OS with the beta OS is a connection for the , for the phone , and I got to say pretty solid all the way around . I have been playing with a lot of that . One of the things I've been playing on with on the iPad and this maybe is a good segue into the iPad is computer conversation , is the , the new stage manager feature , which I hate in the current iteration on . You know the non beta versions of Mac OS and and iPad OS and Turned it off immediately . Lot better job with the ability to rearrange Windows , add multiple windows , have windows on top of windows . That's kind of a pain in the neck , I will admit it's not Quite as intuitive as it is in the macOS yet . But right now I'm looking at three Resized windows . One is notes for the show , one is that the I'm . You know the messages Chat that we have . And then I also currently have you up in the upper right-hand corner , as far as way as I can keep you from me .

Tom A 25:13

In .

Jeff B 25:14

FaceTime . I've got dual FaceTime for you , one one in front of my face in Riverside where we're recording , and the other one on this Off to the side there . But the way that this works now really sharp . I actually might consider using this with some regularity . One of the things I also really like about the the beta in the iPad , which this is Silly , low rent kind of thing but the fact that you can use you can use Live pictures on the lock screen , yeah , so that when you bring it up by the way , this is also true of macOS itself Kind of stunning . I kind of have the same feeling about that that I did when we first talked about the . The photos feature that kind of flipped your photos every time you turned on , turned on the , the phone or the iPad , where it would switch between you know various pictures that you'd taken that you've Selected you know , friend of mine at work , just started using that Just now yesterday .

Jeff B 26:19

Yeah , just updated her phone so and wait .

Tom A 26:22

Just updated their phone to 16 , yeah , 16 , what we're on now ? Yeah , wow , and she listened , so be nice to her , but she pointed it out to me today that how much she liked that feature .

Jeff B 26:40

Yeah , it's still one of my favorite features .

Tom A 26:42

Likewise in that .

Jeff B 26:43

Yeah , and the addition now of live photos on lock screens stunning . I have a waterfall picture that I took in my backyard . You know , not directly my backyard , we kind of you know swanky , half half a mile , half a mile up in the woods behind my house there's a pretty decent waterfall and that is what . When I unlock my iPad , that's what I see and that's all in like Motion . It's really beautiful and it's kind of slower than the normal picture would be . It's like it it speeds up and then kind of slows down until it stops . It's really , it's beautiful , it's really nice .

Tom A 27:21

I haven't seen that specifically , but have you looked at the ? It's the new screensavers and desktop on Sonoma .

Jeff B 27:28

I have . I turned it off to do my own picture , okay .

Tom A 27:31

No , no , I did and that's , that is another similar to what you said .

Jeff B 27:36

Yeah , in the picture of Sonoma , I Gorgeous .

Tom A 27:42

Yeah , oh my gosh , it really is , I think when , I first installed the beta . I sent that to you and I was like this looks incredible .

Jeff B 27:47

It really does , even on the , on the . You know pre , when you , when you have to log into file vault , it looks pretty , pretty slick . There too , you know when you have to log into the computer for the first time . One of the things about this OS is , when I say this OS , mac OS in general , is the way that Apple Kind of grabs you with those kinds of things . It's not just an afterthought that they tack on , it's one of those things , it's a feature , a real feature that makes it so your computer's yours . Look at you , look at me like I'm some kind of dork .

Tom A 28:25

No , I was going to say , and Well , go ahead . No , I was going to say it's not an afterthought . Like the finder , I was gonna save that for the iPad as a computer thing . But we'll get to that a couple minutes .

Jeff B 28:44

Yeah , so , yeah , yeah , you got it . Yeah . So I've got betas on my watch . I've got betas on my MacBook Pro . I've not put it on this . As soon as we finish recording , I'll put it on this , this Mac mini , and have betas on the on my iPad . The only thing I don't know and this is gonna kind of lead us into the iPad as computer question the only thing that really I don't know . He just give me a desktop or give me the option to turn on the desktop . I , you know I can appreciate that we wanted this to be a singular interface , that you tapped a button and it brought up an application , but I really I don't know . I let's , let's have the option to make it a computer . Don't make me open up the files app and then I have to see that stuff to get to it . You know I do have my desktop and iCloud drive can see all those things .

Tom A 29:51

I don't know . So shall we just roll in to the main topic ?

Jeff B 29:55

Oh , tom , let's do it , let's do it .

Can iPad Be Your Only Computer?

Jeff B 29:57

Why not go ahead ? So the main topic is when we this last week , jason snow , formerly of Macworld , now the , the head dude at six colors , that got a couple of other people writing over there as well Dan Moran's one of them , both Macworld guys and you other people , actually another . I noticed the other day another person from back was there . Hey , jason , sure bring me on . Hey , one of the things that he had in in his last , last post was Trying to use the iPad as a computer .

Jeff B 30:39

I picked this up , actually through Derek fireball , and then went over to to Jason's Jason's bit , and what he's come down to is that he's the title of the article is giving up the iPad only travel dream , and what he was talking about Was the idea that he , you know , would be able to leave his MacBook Pro or MacBook Air or whatever he's currently using . Actually , he's using a MacBook Air , leave that at home and take the iPad with him to do everything that he needs to do , and he , like you , I believe , edits most of his podcast work on his iPad . You do that as well , correct ? Yeah , our podcast work . You do the work , I just do the .

Tom A 31:22

Hey , it seems to be working so well , just so far . Just keep at it , yeah .

Jeff B 31:27

I get to listen to it before it goes out .

Tom A 31:31

Which makes me feel better , because I'm always paranoid . It's gonna have something wrong with it , and so at least when you yeah , do your verification list the whole thing feel pretty good about preview parent-approved .

Jeff B 31:43

But he um , he was talking about . I'll just reassess . I'm spending a few days this week visiting my mom and it's the fourth or fifth time this summer I've needed to pack a bag as part of a busy travel schedule . For many years I tried very hard to travel with only an iPad . I bring two devices and I'm not leaving my iPad at home . Since the arrival of Apple Silicon , however , I've gone back to traveling with both an iPad and a MacBook Air and I will say I have never Gotten to the point where I really work on the iPad either . I will say I have often traveled with it and used it as a second display .

Jeff B 32:25

That I've done with regularity set that side car stuff Using the side car features and I like that a lot . It works great , you know . It gives me the opportunity to have you know Messaging that's going on , when you know I'm doing whatever it is that I'm doing , wherever I'm doing it , and then to be able to have you know , typically a remote desktop session up , not a Apple remote desktop session , windows Remote desktop session up which is a really good app by a lot .

Jeff B 32:57

It's brilliant , yeah , it's great , and so I run that on my Mac screen and then I'm doing all the messaging stuff that I need to do it using sidecar . I'm still waiting for Highland Pro to come out , and you know it's still in beta on my iPad .

Jeff B 33:13

So you know , and I've had enough problems with using the beta to do real things and I'm not gonna do that again Like whole paragraphs of rewritten text . No , thank you , don't need to do that , but I have never gotten to the point I where it is a standalone tool for me . Part of that , I think , is because of what we talked about here , which is there's not really finder integration .

Jeff B 33:37

It's better . It's not the same depending on what app you're using . Like if you're using the Microsoft apps , even on a Mac OS , it's always trying to get you to get a OneDrive , not to your local hard drive , which is you know . I get it , but don't be annoying In Mac OS and , sorry , in iPad OS getting to like pages , numbers and key note . I feel like that integrates better , but I'm saving most of that stuff in those folders in my iCloud drive , so it goes where it needs to go there when I travel . It was just out with my mom . I'm now recording in Jeffrey Dahmer's basement , but you know , last episode I was at my mom's house in Jeffrey Dahmer's cabin . I don't know what you were going to call it . No , ted Kaczynski's cabin Dark .

Jeff B 34:24

Yeah , you know me so Ted Kaczynski's cabin at mom's and Jeffrey Dahmer's basement at my house , but what I end up using the iPad for is watching movies , checking a couple of messages and doing stuff like that , but , honestly , I have not made a transition to using an iPad for everything . I'm proud of you , tom , because you are at least using it to edit podcast episodes . Are you doing other things , though , that make it more a ? Could you live I think this is the better question Traveling could you travel just with an iPad ?

Tom A 35:05

If we did not have a show to record , probably . Case in point Right , exactly , yeah because the audio subsystem for iOS slash iPadOS is still pretty primitive , yeah it is I mean you see it you play some Apple music and then go to YouTube . You don't get them both to play like you would on a Mac or a PC . Correct , it's gonna say well , you must really just wanna watch the YouTube . So I'm gonna kill the other one , and it is what it is .

Jeff B 35:42

I will say that that is not the case with AirPlay . If you're AirPlaying from your iPad , you can go , but you're right on the local device .

Tom A 35:49

Yeah , if you kick that off AirPlay to some HomePods or something else , then it respects that and we'll play it there , but otherwise . So I think a couple of things have happened . The period where Apple introduced the split screen set up , which I think was iOS , it was just iOS . Then I think nine , where they did side-by-side apps and stuff like that oh , multitasking's coming , and then they put the keyboard folio out and then the Apple pencil . And if you overlay at that point in time how the Mac was trending , which was not good because the iMacs were stale , the .

Tom A 36:31

Mac mini hadn't been updated for several years . The laptops had the crappy keyboards . Apple didn't really seem committed to it at the time . Now in retrospect , we know that's not necessarily , is it the case . But then I think some people were kind of like , well , I don't know , apple doesn't seem really invested in the Mac's future anymore . This iPad thing's , kind of nifty and interesting could be the future thing .

Tom A 36:57

Fast forward to Apple Silicon era for the Mac , and we've said before here that the Mac is back . This is like a new golden age of Mac hardware . The Macbook Air is amazing . The Macbook Pros are amazing , the Studio , the Minis I think the Mac Pro is the one that probably gets dinged the most just because it's so much more expensive than the Studio just to get yourself some slots . But for the people that need it , they need it . I mean , that's a very specific audience that needs that , and so I think when you kind of look at it and you'll say , well , gosh , they sure are slowly moving the iPad forward , and sometimes it feels kind of grudgingly that they do it Like with Stage Manager came out . You addressed that a minute ago where it wasn't great .

Jeff B 37:48

And it was very rigid . It was less rigid .

Tom A 37:50

Yeah , it really was . There were parts of it that I liked and you could see the potential was there , but it was so finicky with window layout and just how little options you had with that . But that seems to be rectified quite a bit with 17 .

Jeff B 38:07

Yeah , I would say definitely . It's very nice in 17 . It's not Mac OS , but it's definitely leaps and bounds beyond what it was in the last iteration , and enough , by the way , that I might even try it on my Mac . That's .

Tom A 38:25

Yeah , have you hooked that up to your display , the iPad with the 17 beta for Stage Manager on a bigger display ? I have not . Okay , I need to do that . I have not . We can come back to that when we get the release . I've wanted to put it on because I do the podcast editing . I didn't know what the ferrite app was gonna do with the beta .

Tom A 38:42

So I was like I'll wait , but I do want to try that . But back to that . I mean , and I also think kind of the other part of that is how does the user define work ? What do they do ? I have an attorney friend who leads the firm . He's the head guy there . It's his company . He started . It Works off the 12.9 inch iPad just fine .

Jeff B 39:09

And what's he doing ?

Tom A 39:09

with it . He does mail , he does chatting , he does web stuff with their apps that they use for it . No it's not his only device , but he said 80% of the time he's using it .

Jeff B 39:22

He can do that and I can concur with that . Is he doing motions ? Is he doing pleadings ? Is he doing I don't know what kind of Right ?

Tom A 39:30

And I think he's maybe a little more removed from that scene now when he's got the other partners Minions , the attorneys and things right . Is he listening to this ?

Jeff B 39:40

He might be .

Tom A 39:41

Yeah , I just talked to him the other day and I say kind of you should check it out , but I don't know if he will .

Jeff B 39:47

If he does , hey , yeah , he should Definitely should .

Tom A 39:50

So I think that plays a big part into it . Like , if you're a podcaster , which this isn't work for us , this is a hobby work . You make money . We don't do that . What I don't make any money .

Tom A 40:02

I think it's tough to record Editing's fine , like I do that . Maybe you're working in construction and you need to do photos . You need to do the LiDAR sensor . You've got an app for that . You're out in the field , you need people to sign contracts . You could do that all day , very true . So I think it's hard to say one way or another definitively , because people's definitions or requirements for work vary so much from field to field , person to person , even within the same field .

Jeff B 40:34

Yeah , that's accurate , to be sure , and so maybe this is the point to bring up what Jason Snell does the most of is writing , and so maybe considering the tools available I mean , I know he does podcasts- yeah , he does a lot of podcasts too . Yeah , and , like I said , I think he does edit on his iPad . He does a lot of stuff . I think he was doing a lot of workarounds to make that work for him rather than having it be easy .

Tom A 41:04

So that's the thing .

Jeff B 41:05

But , like I said , I don't write in Word , I don't write in Pages Normally . There are things that I have done in those applications and continue to do it . I think Pages is a great page-loud application for boneheads like me , where I'm not gonna be using let me know what they are In design . The page maker doesn't . He doesn't use the Pages anymore . That'll tell you how long it's been . Quirk Express I could say that if Highland Pro wasn't in beta I know we need to just get these guys on the line and talk about them Then maybe it would be more likely that I would use my iPad , because that is primarily what I'm doing .

Jeff B 41:49

Do use it to edit photos . Pixelmators got a couple of great apps for the iPad that you can use . But if I look at the stuff that I have on here , my big folder is Entertainment . I use Fantastic Cal on here . I use Notes on here I could get rid of the iTunes Store altogether Settings App Notes On the Graphile occasionally , but not really on here . I don't know . It's not the stuff that I need to use for the things that I'm doing and I think that's a very valid point . Some people this is an everyday tool , but for some people it's not . I'm not an everyday tool person , love the screen , though for screen sharing . It's a nice size for that , for being able to use as a duplicate or a dual screen , and it's great for watching movies while I'm cooking dinner .

Tom A 42:42

Part of it , too , is I don't think Apple has done a good enough job with the product lineup . I think it's still messy . So you've got the Pros , you've got the 11 and the 12.9 . M2s I think the 12.9 has the micro LED display . I think I don't think the 11 does . But don't quote me on that , have to go look . So even there there's some discrepancies . And then you've got the iPad Air and you've got the iPad 10th generation , which for some reason still uses the first generation Apple Pencil . Don't get that , which is baffling to me and a lot of other people . So I don't understand that the ninth generation iPad is still around . It looks really old at this point because all the other ones have the new design language on . It Still uses the first gen Apple Pencil , but it is priced very well , and so I don't think the lineup's terrible . But I'm sure you know there are people at Apple that do this that are way smarter than I am with this stuff . If you look at the balance , you see that bounces out nicely . We're selling just exactly what we thought , but from a consumer side of things it still seems a little bit messy . We deploy the ninth gen at work and nobody really has any problem with them . They take their notes , they do what they do and they're fine .

Tom A 44:14

I think if you said , could you work all day on a small screen like that , I would say no , I couldn't do it . I know some people probably don't . They could , but I could not . And I think we've had some discussions where I wouldn't mind even a 14 or 15-inch iPad Pro to get the bigger screen , especially now if they get the kinks worked out with Stage Manager . And then you're like , oh yeah , that could be quite good . It's still going to be light . I mean , it's not going to be as heavy as the 12.9 and the Magic Keyboard is . And I'm not . I like the Magic Keyboard . I don't love it , it's heavy . I don't like the Trackpad a whole lot . It's serviceable , like there's nothing wrong with it .

Tom A 44:57

but no poem detection , which we've talked about before , and that drives me a little bonkers and I think the friction point is you come from a MacBook Air or a MacBook Pro with the gigantic Trackpads and then you come to the Magic Trackpad and it's small and I get it . I mean there's . You know they're working with some constraints there , so I'm not going to ding them too much on it , but it's just the thing . I tell you , the original keyboard . They put out the Folio that flips around so you can lay it flat , right , one Yep , it's very good . I used that one still on the one I have at work . I used it a lot this week and you asked some of the things I do , for example . So this week at the office , you know , I had some kind of big picture idea , stuff I was working on sketching out , and so I put the iPad on the desk , had the pencil jumped into Bear , got a sketch note started and went to town , and it's great for that .

Jeff B 45:50

And it's an adjunct . Still for me , right , it's something that's an add-on , yeah , a great add-on , but couldn't do business personally , right , with just that , with just that .

Tom A 46:01

Yeah , and I mean it's . But I think the biggest thing is like and Jason Snell alluded to it in the article it's like it's just progressing so slowly . It's like every other year you know that every other year kind of major thing . So everyone was surprised they pleasantly surprised and happy with it that they , you know , made some adjustments to stage manager , because on the iPad side of things you're always worried , like okay , they put it out and then it doesn't do anything for two years and then they updated and then there's another two years and the next thing you know it's six years gone and you're like holy smokes . So I think that's part of it . Like the Files app you mentioned there is , it's okay , it's gotten better . Finder isn't great we talked about that a minute ago jokingly , but it's been around forever and it's still not great . So I don't think the Files app is going to get great at any point . You mentioned maybe dropping things on the desktop .

Jeff B 46:57

I know a lot of people do that , but it's just and again .

Tom A 47:01

This goes back to the habits that you and I have as long time Mac users .

Jeff B 47:06

Right .

Tom A 47:07

Or long time computer users , right yeah , if you come from Windows , same concepts , right , right , it's the same idea .

Jeff B 47:13

What I think I'm asking for when I ask for that option is the ability and this used to be in the Mac OS . Remember you had the , the it came in wrote what it was called , but you had it so you could set it up for your kids and it was a single click of button and that open stuff .

Tom A 47:30

Yeah , the simple finder .

Jeff B 47:31

That's what it was Simple finder Right , the ability to say you know , I want to like to turn off the simple iPad .

Tom A 47:37

They're like you know . Oh , you could do that with a MacBook Air .

Jeff B 47:42

Yeah , you can do that , but that's kind of what the concept is , right . I mean it's the I'd like to have for a more computer-like experience . I'd like to have more computer .

Tom A 47:55

So what you're saying is Samsung has done it right with DeX , which is what you plug it in .

Jeff B 47:59

I don't even know what that is so .

Tom A 48:00

that's their kind of . I think it's on the phones , and so you take your phone , you plug it into a monitor and you get more of a desktop-y kind of environment to work in .

Jeff B 48:11

I've never used it Desktop-y like that sounds great yeah .

Tom A 48:14

Yeah , I mean , that's what you're asking for , so . I don't know how well they've implemented it Because I've never used it . But I don't know either . But that's something , and I think other people have said that , and it's like oh , it'd be great if I could take my iPad and then , when I put it in , you know , hook it up to an external display , it turns into a Mac-like device . Yeah , and I don't see Apple doing that . But I tell you , though , when it comes it's the new goggles , pal , oh geez Could be .

Tom A 48:44

When it comes to end of the day , winding down the day , the iPad is almost irreplaceable for me . Which is propped up in bed , I'm rummaging through Reddit , or I'm reading a book , or I'm watching some YouTube , whatever it is , because doing that with a MacBook ain't great , because you know you always have the keyboard in the way Correct . So love the iPad . This isn't a bash the iPad session . Like I'm a big fan .

Jeff B 49:09

No , I agree with that .

Jeff B 49:11

But there's still it's a question of whether or not yeah , exactly , it's a question of whether or not you could live with that alone , and I can't . Others can . I think you've pointed that out , but it's not the thing that I could do . I love the iPad too . I really do . Got it sitting next to me right now showing my mug to you , and actually I'm looking at our show notes on it , and I've got a full screen , you know , in Riverside , which I don't usually do . Usually I have it side by side , so it's a that's a nice setup . Let's me do that , but not a standalone thing .

Tom A 49:44

And some of the stuff Apple's put in for moving device to device , universal control . Great Love it . It's a little aggressive , sometimes with wanting to grab the cursor and I'm like , oh , where'd it go ?

Jeff B 49:56

And it's like and you scroll and you scroll and you scroll , and then it comes back .

Tom A 49:59

It's like wow it really took it way over to the other edge , but overall is really nice . I like that a lot and it's fun . Like the interface is playful . We talked about that earlier on in the show with , like the dynamic island and how you know , playful and whimsical , and that stuff is fun . I mean it brings life to the devices . I think I just want to say .

Jeff B 50:23

I just , of course , opened up ARC on the iPad and I just got a message on my back saying incompatible versions Can't use both of them . Always something , tom , it's always something it actually says it's ready to update in this version and I tell you what anyway sorry , I got a little distracted .

Tom A 50:41

I apologize , that's okay .

Jeff B 50:43

So I think we agree , although your mileage may vary , and we'd be interested in hearing that . So , if you do use an iPad for everyday work , send us a response , let us know , talk to us about it . We'd like to hear from you . We might even bring you on and have a conversation about that . So let's work on the show . Send us a . What's that ?

Tom A 51:08

Let's work for us when we have guests . Right , always better when we have guests .

Jeff B 51:12

Different perspectives . Guests make us better .

Tom A 51:15

Way better .

Jeff B 51:15

Guests are usually better than us . I think that's the more a the more truthful thing . So , yeah , when you , if you have the option or the opportunity to send us an email at feedback at basicafshowcom , let us know if you're using the iPad , ipad , ipod . Good God , ipad day to day . Dude , I'm useless as two sticks .

Tom A 51:39

It's getting late Almost time for us to go to bed .

Jeff B 51:42

It's bedtime for old people , Tom I already had my dinner at 4.30 at the dinner .

Tom A 51:48

It's a dinner it doesn't discount Well that's how you can afford those watch bands . So , as we mentioned when the show kicked off , the events coming up on the 12th . So we will do a recap and thoughts and all that stuff on the next episode of this fine podcast . Yes , We'll have all of the news and whatnot and , depending on dates , the operating systems maybe out by then too , depends what . How Apple does that schedule ?

Jeff B 52:21

I would think so . Yeah , I would think we would see that and we're looking at we . The 12th is the date and actually that would be time for us to record immediately following that .

Tom A 52:32

So we should do a live show . Anything , we can throw it on zoom or something .

Jeff B 52:38

We could try that .

Tom A 52:42

Tell your three friends , I'll tell my two , and then we maybe we'll have one person show , we'll have a whole , we'll have a whole group of six . Right , it's party . Yep , all right , I think that does it for this one . I agree with you , tom .

Jeff B 52:58

Good work , Good stuff

Closing

Jeff B 52:59

. A couple of reminders , as we said before the top of the show , feedback at basickfshowcom . You can get Tom at where ? On Twitter ?

Tom A 53:09

Twitter Tom , Whatever that thing's called F Anderson , and on threads it's just Tom Anderson and get me at raised point .

Jeff B 53:16

Yep , all those things Show music by PsychoKinetics , also known as Celsius 7 . We highly recommend that you check out both Celsius 7's and PsychoKinetics music . Celsius 7 has a new album out , artwork by Randall Martin Design . Again , guy kills it . If you have any artwork needs , we highly recommend that you go see Randall . He'd be happy to take care of you and give you something that looks like our little show picture , which I still think is one of the best ones on any of the podcast app , stands out better than any of the other ones I've seen .

Jeff B 53:54

I agree , and it's not just because it's ours .

Tom A 53:58

He made it look good even despite that . They kind of factored us into the two robot dudes Right . So that should tell you something .

Jeff B 54:05

Yeah right , he made us look good he did . If he made us look good , he'll make you look great . That's it . He had a long ways to go to get to good for us , that is true ?

Tom A 54:16

All right , well , I think that will do it . So thank you yet again for being here with us checking us out . Hope you have a great rest of your day , rest of your night , and we will talk to you next time , see ya .