iPhone 15 Pro Max First Impressions, watchOS 10 Upgrade Remorse

Tom: 0:00

15 inch. All right, welcome in everybody. Once again it is a new episode of basic AF. It's Tom and Jeff. Jeff, how's it going, brother?

Jeff: 0:25

All right, man, All right. It was just dancing like Donald Trump did at that thing, Whoa it was not expecting that you were not paying any attention.

Tom: 0:34

I saw you dancing. What I'm trying to think, what I'm going to say as the show Starts? It's hard for me. I'm not that smart.

Jeff: 0:40

And you can't do two things at once. Yeah, I was. I was doing the, for sure, not the Trump tango.

Tom: 0:45

Well, so anyway, yet again friends, be glad this is an audio show, not video. And yeah, you were spared that. I got to see it. I'll take it for you there. Oh yeah, at least I'm dressed, yeah, so welcome back to this show. We do appreciate you being here with us For this one. If you are new, welcome, and we're happy to have you here with us and hope that you will enjoy it enough to add us to your playlist. If you have feedback on any of these things questions on topics, feedback on Jeff's dancing, my Stupidity, whatever it is, feedback at basic af show calm is how you can contact us if you want to do such a thing that is correct.

Jeff: 1:27

That is correct. You can do that. By the way, we are a show numero 19 man. We're at the precipice of 20, which you know in years. I might like that back and I would take it, yeah, I would too in these brains so 20 in these brains, I think.

Tom: 1:44

In that first podcast we did back in 2011 With our friend John I think, we got up to 30 couple episodes. Did we get that? I think we did, because that was a weekly. So we were doing that on a weekly, which is probably why we burned out and just stopped.

Jeff: 2:00

You guys pulled me in later in the game because I do not feel like I was. I think we did 30 in. Yeah, I think we got.

Tom: 2:06

You needed my brilliance to make it good taking next level right, which is why I reached back out to you for this one. See so, but yeah that's. If we can beat that, I think we'll Run something anyway, but yeah, yeah, maybe at least we're still having fun. I think, yeah, that's the main thing Stop's being fun, we'll just stop the show. It's not like we're gonna money.

Tom: 2:27

Probably not. We got nothing else to do. Yes, so the last show that we published Will be two weeks ago by the time this one drops out, but that was the day that IOS, ipad OS, watch OS, tv OS and HomePod whatever they call that software these days we're all released then, and Just this past week We've had Mac OS, sonoma released, the new iPhones and Apple watches have shipped, so there's a whole lot of new stuff, jeff, and so I figured for this show We'll just talk about the new stuff. You've got something new to talk about?

Jeff: 3:00

I do, I do, I picked up a titanium iPhone 15 inch and and 15 inch Dude. I Swear. You know I swear this every time. Maybe it's a lie. I have not been drinking. I I found 15 pro 15 inch, 15 inch.

Tom: 3:22

MacBook. I think that's the. That's gonna be the next iPad size, I think is like a 15. Okay, so I'm seeing the. If we had a bet book, we could put it in the bet book. We don't have a bed book.

Jeff: 3:33

I don't have enough money as it is, I need to be betting what I don't have anyway. Sorry, I phone 15 pro max, not 15 inch, although you know who knows, maybe someday that'll be a thing. Did pick up in the titanium titanium. I did have to wait for it a couple of days. I went to the AT&T store, ordered it and I Got it. This is the first time I'm using a pro max. That's right. You're up sized, correct? I did up size and I will say it is not significantly different than what I was holding when I had the last one. I had was 13. That I traded in with a leather case on it. This one is running around naked, at least for the moment, and the size is not significantly different than than that. So in my hand I'm not. I thought it might be a little. Okay, continue. Listen, I wasn't being filthy, you are.

Jeff: 4:39

Right into it. We had 15 inches in my hand, Sorry you don't lie much, do you know not? Much at all. Oh hi this this one's off.

Tom: 4:49

We've fallen off the rails straight ahead.

Jeff: 4:52

Yeah, you're welcome.

Tom: 4:53

Thanks for hanging out with us. We'll see you next time. It's great.

Jeff: 4:59

So the phone in my hand is not significantly different or doesn't feel significantly different than the the 13 pro that I was using before. So it's nice feel the width is not that big a difference. It's taller, definitely taller, and that that is where the biggest part of the difference is. Uh, one downside to this is that in my car I now have to use a plug to charge my phone because the it it had MagSafe wireless charging in the car it no longer fits In the place where it used to go. It's a little taller and therefore does not sit in that spot. It's not a big deal. It just picked up the, you know, picked up a cable and plug it in.

Jeff: 5:49

But it that is a thing, that is a thing it's important to know too that often when I was doing that wireless charging, the thing heated up so much that it would not Charge. You know I got a little too toasty, but you know small, small potatoes as far as I concerned, uh, really loving the camera, I think. Did I send you pictures yesterday? I don't think I did not yet. No, okay, yeah, I um. So not quite the harvest moon, we're almost there, but last night I was walking home and, uh, the moon was up over the mountain behind my house, took a nice little picture which I'll send to you.

Tom: 6:25

Used the wait, that one you did send.

Jeff: 6:27

Yeah, I did. I sent you the moon. So stop. You know, my mind is bad enough already. Tom, don't tell me. I didn't send you things when I did. Oh, I remember that it's an abusive relationship. It is, yeah, and that's why we love each other pretty much. So that the new lens really, really nice. I've been just goofing around with it. I did send you a few of those pictures where I, you know, did wide angle view of.

Tom: 6:54

My feet. Yeah, thanks I feet.

Jeff: 6:56

Yeah, so great. Oh, I know you're into that.

Tom: 6:59

Oh yeah um.

Jeff: 7:03

So I'm sorry folks, just like a hot mess, it's been a long week.

Jeff: 7:10

It has been, um, so Really loving that. But I, I in this is, you know, in this moment, in this moment, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say this Uh, I don't know if I needed to make this purchase. Why do I say that, tom, I love the camera, but the reality is I would not buy a thousand dollar camera every two years, nor would I you know what I'm saying I would not pay A thousand dollars to have a better camera every couple of years. Uh, and that is to me the most significant piece of this Upgrade you said you were coming from the 13.

Tom: 8:01

Correct, I came from the 13.

Jeff: 8:02

Okay, and I loved the 13. The battery life was getting a little, you know, I won't say it was bad, it was still running all day, but not what I was used to. Yeah, um, but in terms of what I got for my buck, I got an extra lens and some other features. You know some other photographic features, which is really what you know they.

Jeff: 8:26

I always go by the adage that you know what's the best phone to have. It's the one that you have with you. Um, or sorry, what's the best camera? Right, see, I can't, I don't know what I'm doing tonight. You should drink, I should, because I probably be better. Um, I, uh. So what's the best camera? It's the one you have with you and I always have the phone with me and I Always take pictures. I take pictures almost every single day. So you know, I'm happy to have the new lens.

Jeff: 8:58

But if I were using, you know, photo kit, you know my old Nikon, I might have bought a new lens and I would have used that lens until the end of time. And then, when I bought a new Nikon, if I did that at some point in time, the lenses all still work with the same camera body. So I. I have been on a and every two year upgrade plan. That's. That's the way I've been for a long time. I don't know whether I'm gonna need to do that going forward, unless you know they have some kind of transporter beam in the next one. It's, it's not to me. I've reached a point where the speed of my last phone was fine, mm-hmm. Yeah, I was gonna ask about that really good.

Tom: 9:49

What's that? I was going to ask about that If you've noticed any perceived speed Increases with what you do day to day, because you could throw the benchmarks on and it'll say, oh, it's 35% faster, but in a daily usage of the thing, you know it's hard to what I do.

Jeff: 10:03

It does take pictures really quickly, right. So you and that was one of the things that they shot for that, you know you, you press the button or you, you know you tap that little, that little tapper, it takes a quick picture, right, hey, in that for sure it's, it's doing really quickly. But on my day-to-day Don't know, and it's kind of you know that that came to be the case with computers. I used to get like a new MacBook or power book back in the day. I would, I would, I do they were nice.

Tom: 10:38

I mean, if you had to use it today, obviously it would be very crappy, because right, we've progressed so far, but past that, but at the time they were, they were really great.

Jeff: 10:47

Yeah, but I, as far as computers, I don't like I need a new one every eight years. Now, mm-hmm, you know, seven years. I wait till it really Really runs down like the one I have now, especially thanks to the thieves I, you know I I can't see Out growing it. For you know, seven or eight years is like why? No reason to do that, and I feel like for myself this is not gonna be true of everybody, but for myself the phone is more than enough. And To upgrade just for a camera and spend that much money just for a camera, I don't think I need to do it anymore. Cool to have the tech.

Tom: 11:32

I like it.

Jeff: 11:33

Yep, but I don't know if I need it and I'm gonna say I got the titanium titanium, it's nice. That just sounds funny. I know. Titanium, titanium, whoa Um, sounds like some Marvel.

Tom: 11:47

I don't know Marvel bad guy. The guy didn't make the cut like sorry, you're out, we've got everyone else. Titanium. Titanium is out, he's. He's gonna be an evil doer. Now he's the me of Marvel characters it's.

Jeff: 12:02

I Gotta say this season of color Ain't so hot on these. Like it's okay, it looks like silver, to be frank with you, and when I compared it when I was handed in my, my 13, which had the green 13 which I liked, but they even that looks kind of like this, like this new titanium, titanium, the natural, titanium natural, whatever Is it really natural oh that's what they say.

Tom: 12:32

It's gotta be, if they say it.

Jeff: 12:35

It, it doesn't look. It doesn't look all that different to me, you know. It's just like. It's okay. I have something like.

Tom: 12:43

I agonize. I don't want agonize anymore, but I used to say, well, always get the silver one, maybe I'll get, you know, space gray or whatever. But then I always put a case on it and so all I really see is the bump out around the Camera. Yeah, and that's all I see, but yeah, whatever. So with those lenses that are in the new one, when you're in the camera app, what do you have in there, like point five one, two X and five X? Is that what you correct?

Jeff: 13:10

That's the way it shows up and you know. So you end up with an extra one. It was kind of interesting. I can't remember maybe it was Mac rumors, I can't remember if you sent it to me to not or not, or if it's something that I I saw. But they, you know they're using like a prismatic mirror in it to be able to get that kind of depth. On the, on that lens, somebody had done a mock-up of how deep it would need to be and you know if it was an actual lens and it was sticking out about three-quarter on edge.

Tom: 13:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeff: 13:42

So you know that's. That's pretty miraculous. That works really well. I have the Action capabilities now, so I did not have it in the previous version of. I don't think the iPhone 13 had the ability to. You know, for you to run down the street like that ad With the mom chasing her kid as he's running a race. She's bouncing all over the place yeah, 13.

Tom: 14:06

I don't think. I don't think I think they put that in on the 14 right you, you have it or you have it.

Jeff: 14:12

I have it now. I used it to shoot some birds on my bird feeder. To shoot pictures. I didn't shoot the birds. No pita people, please.

Tom: 14:22

It's on there in the 14. I Used it. Maybe once I used it to shoot.

Jeff: 14:29

Video of birds and my bird feeder Work great because usually you know I can't get quite close enough to them. That the new lens gets me a lot closer Than than it did before. But I had to zoom in a little in addition to the what the lens was to be able to get a good look at the bird. And I put on that action mode because the further you zoom you know when it's handheld it gets jacked up. You know you're. It looks like you're on an ocean liner in a bad storm, at least when I'm holding it. Action mode was great. It it centered. You wouldn't even know that I was wobbling around in the way that I was, so it did great work of being able to keep everything in there. So I like that. Yeah, new me that.

Tom: 15:11

That link with the part of the review where they used action mode. Uh-huh, who did that is? I can't remember his name.

Jeff: 15:19

I know if, soon as you say it up again, definitely that's, yeah, yeah yeah, and have to look back at what I've sent you in the past and we've been chatting a lot. We have been, and if you want to call chatting Well, it's mostly me raging out bit. Yes, hold on, I'll tell you who it is. I'm scrolling back. You're not talking about the Angie agar no.

Jeff: 15:42

She's too sorry, completely off topic, but the the football Maven, she's the best I just gotta. I just gotta say she does amazing recaps of football week, especially for me, a guy who doesn't watch football. I'm scrolling back it's a long ways and always back and Hold on.

Jeff: 16:06

Tyler stallman. There we go, yeah, great. So he he had some thoughts about the action button. I have switched the X and button. As I said, I went to halide. I Downloaded a new little app, which is actually not an app. It just really adds a bunch of actions to Shortcuts that are pretty useful. That I think I'm gonna make it so I can do a couple of different things with the action button. But right now the action button holds halide or opens halide. When you hold it Sorry, that's, I was jumping ahead in my mind you, you have to hold it down, you can't just click it. So, which is probably a good idea, because then you don't accidentally Trigger stuff on a pocket, right?

Jeff: 16:50

Is that a camera in your pocket or use that piece. No.

Tom: 16:54

Thought we steered away from that, but here we are yet.

Jeff: 17:00

Sorry. So the one of the things that he said. What was his name? Again, tyler stallman. Yeah, okay, tyler stallman, which we should probably post. That video was really good. Video about the photography features yes, he's a professional photographer. About the photography features the placement of the action button Little high, it's above, you know, the volume switches, where you'd expect it to be, and it Makes more sense now that it is not a mute, you know, a silence switch. It makes more sense for it to be, I think, beneath the volume buttons, where it's easier to get at with your thumb right, which is more about the halfway point.

Jeff: 17:50

Yeah, you wanted about the halfway point and it is not. And particularly on the Pro Max, which is bigger, I Would have to look at it and see where they actually align. But because the Pro Max is bigger, that's a reach. Yeah, I can get to it, but it's definitely, definitely a reach. So it may be in some redesign it might make more sense to have that have that sit below the volume button, since it's no longer a volume toggle. I Never have the volume on on my phone.

Tom: 18:22

Me either. Yeah, I always have that off.

Jeff: 18:25

Yep, so I Don't need. You know that that button was useless to me. I didn't use it for anything except for when he went to like some Some video games. If you play them you need to have the volume on and this way to be able to do it, unless you had headphones on. But other than that there's no reason to you know there's no reason to do it so. But I will say I love the feature and I'm looking forward to doing a little more work with that to kind of Add some other options where I can do select from a list and maybe, if I want the camera open but make it easy.

Jeff: 19:01

But the ease with which I can now open halide, which remember I did the little tap the back twice, yep, or knock three times on the ceiling if you, oh no, oh tack two times. I know it's the worst show ever because you're stuck with me singing. You know Songs from a long time ago that nobody knows the. If I no longer need to use that, I can just. I can just open halide that way. So I like, I like that a lot. I do Enjoy. I don't even know what it's called. What's the silly thing at the top called? I'm supposed to be. This is a tech podcast, right.

Tom: 19:38

Oh, the dynamic other things.

Jeff: 19:39

Dynamic island I like that a lot. I'm finding that there are a lot of things about it that I enjoy. But I will say again, buying the phone for the dynamic island, you know, I don't that's. That's not enough, I don't think, to justify.

Tom: 20:01

No you know, especially that's down on the 15 now too. So if you could, if you really wanted that, you could save a few bucks and just get the regular iPhone 15, which is, at least from what I recall from the, the event. It sounds Almost just like the 14 Pro, but it's now just the 15, because right 15. So that's a really solid phone.

Jeff: 20:23

It is, yeah it, absolutely solid. So, anyway, it's from that perspective. You know, I'm happy to have the camera, but I am gonna, I think, start rethinking my. You know, once every two years upgrade your phone point of view. I Don't know that I need to do that anymore, you know right. Unless there's something.

Tom: 20:50

You know, we get a big redesign or something groundbreaking comes out, then it's like okay, oh, that'll kind of maybe throw my pattern what?

Jeff: 20:57

what is groundbreaking at this point for your phone? Nothing, yeah right, you know they're. I don't see. I mean it's like some groundbreaking Do we?

Tom: 21:07

are we with laptops these days? I mean?

Jeff: 21:09

yeah, they look nice and.

Tom: 21:11

It's a lot. Sit on and do the same right form as the power books. We talked about 10 minutes right, and so I've got 14 pro now and, like you, I usually do the every other cycle and and I'm on the fence about that, but we'll see.

Jeff: 21:28

Yeah, I'm, I mean.

Tom: 21:30

Perfectly content with with what I have.

Jeff: 21:33

Yeah, and and truth of the matter is and I don't think I knew it until I had this in my hands, but I was perfectly content with my 13.

Tom: 21:41

Yeah, no, did you hand that down to someone or traded in or Normally?

Jeff: 21:47

I would have my son who was driving my 11 Mm-hmm he. He was ready for a new phone and I was gonna hand it down to him, but we both decided that he'll he'll get a new one. So he is actually getting the same one that I have.

Tom: 22:07

Okay, yeah, it's what I actually do is I take and hand it down I.

Jeff: 22:13

Did get these through AT&T and you know you have to sell your soul to them, but they were giving. Basically, I got a. I got a thousand dollars for my 13 okay, helps. Yeah, so you know they tried in for a thousand dollars and I get you know this for those marketers know what they're doing.

Jeff: 22:33

They do and you know for me who's not gonna be doing anything for three years probably. Anyway, I'm perfectly fine. So he's doing the same thing. They gave him 800, 700 for the 11, maybe 600, I can't remember. I'd have to ask him, but he Pretty good for that 11.

Tom: 22:51

Yeah, I think a co-worker she, I Want to say, got six or 700 for hers. She got the 15 Mm-hmm in the blue color. Okay, and how's that look? I haven't seen it in person yet. I'm gonna try to get over to her. How do you know she has it? I believe her, she's trustworthy.

Jeff: 23:08

Is she sure?

Tom: 23:09

Yeah, well, I'm a little mad at her because she's leaving us for a new job, but oh, that's beside the point, I'll still appreciate her phone and everything. No, we are really sad that she's leaving. She's been great, but she's got a really sweet offer and that's where Tremendously happy for her as a person. But in a selfish way yeah, cuz she, she kicked butt, she was great, great so is she a student or a former student?

Tom: 23:34

No, she came in just right at the start of pandemic stuff, just before she was referral by someone else, and she's one of our help desk technicians Okay yeah but she did run our, she built up our work, study technician program and all the training and really Knocked it out of the park and and did a great job.

Jeff: 23:52

So yeah, thanks a year For her. Yes, understood, understood.

Tom: 23:57

All right. So the new phone sounds like you're pretty happy with it. I mean the phone itself. You're perfect.

Jeff: 24:03

I love the phone. It's just. Did you really?

Tom: 24:05

need to get it? Probably not, but you got in here the right it's fine, I'm not disappointed with it.

Jeff: 24:10

I do like it. I the rounder edges on this too I. It is like I said, naked we have, we can talk about bullstrap in a minute, but after you talk about watchy stuff, but the Edges it's a really. It has a really nice. I'm gonna sound like a Somalia here now has a nice hand feel Mouthfeel for wine, wine.

Tom: 24:38

God, that's so pretentious, I can't stand.

Jeff: 24:43

It really. Those edges are really really nice.

Tom: 24:46

Yeah, everyone seems to like that and I think what's probably helped you a good bit with the up sizing to the pro max is that it's lighter and so it is your net weight increase. I'd be curious, having I haven't looked it up, to see like how much the 13 Pro was in terms of weight and then what the 15 pro max is and to see how close they are. But it's probably has helped out, because my wife has the 14 pro max and that's junkie, like it's got some heft, mm-hmm.

Jeff: 25:19

So this is. I held this, you know, when I was trading it in, I held them both Side-by-side, and this is definitely lighter than than that one.

Tom: 25:28

That's pretty good, but it's still got some heft.

Jeff: 25:30

Yeah, and I do like that. You know I don't want it to feel like it's a piece of garbage, right, it does. It does feel. It does feel very nice, and the fact that the width is roughly the same, I think, makes a big difference too.

Tom: 25:47

Yeah. Ice cream bars, which is yeah, I scream sandwich, candy, bar, whatever they call, so that they're not super big. Remember when the seven Okay, what are? They caught them, the seven, the big seven, like this yes right, I had that huge, it was massive and but the screen, the screen was big. But you that's back when they still had like the home button and everything. So you had that on top of the big screen. So those are really really big and have this is so case-wise. You do not have a case yet.

Jeff: 26:22

No, so funny story. Um, I ordered a bullstrap case as talked about in the last show, correct? And I Got it and looked at it. No, you're a torque. I I Ordered the. I didn't order one for the 15 pro max, I ordered one for the 15 pro.

Tom: 26:44

What you bought for years, though, so that makes sense right.

Jeff: 26:47

I well, I just wasn't even looking at, didn't even think twice when I ordered this. I have gotten in contact with their customer service, though, and they're brilliant. I will say, first of all, the bullstrap case lifetime warranty. They will replace it up to twice a year. Holy smokes, right Twice, up to twice a year on their warranty. You have to send pictures and stuff like that.

Jeff: 27:12

That's okay, man but yeah about this, they were Really cool like they. You know I didn't want to return it. I needed to do something special to exchange it because they didn't give you the option to exchange for a larger size. But I Contacted them via email, took me a couple emails back and forth, but you know I'm sending this you know this new, old one unwrapped back to them and not unwrapped, sorry, still in the box and and they're sending me back the 15 pro max, which is really really nice. But they've been a really Charming to deal with. And, by the way, I have no sponsors, but I'm perfectly happy to tell it. Doesn't say that bullstrap is amazing. I also ordered this week because this is kind of crazy I ordered a package of for air tag holders because they were not. I guess they're not making them anymore, so I'm getting four for the price of essentially one according to what their old price scheme was From bull strap, nice, nice.

Jeff: 28:25

So yeah, really, really nice stuff. So I will have a leather case. I tried to go out and buy a fine woven case, just so we could talk about it here.

Tom: 28:35

It was supposed to be. The rage with the kids these days is to talk about that.

Jeff: 28:39

Yeah well you know, I don't believe it until you touch it, so I I.

Tom: 28:44

Which I saw one. Did I tell you that I saw a friend of the show, Gannon's he? We met up a couple of weeks before the talk. You said he hated it too right. Well, at that point he did not have the phone. He just had the case, and so we met up and because the case got. They shipped the cases that kind of week before the phones started to arrive.

Tom: 29:02

And so he got like on a Monday or Tuesday or something. But anyway, we met up and he showed it to me and at that point some of the early people had gotten them and had looked at some of the things online about it and the my initial take on it wasn't quite as negative on at first glance as some of the other people have had. But it ain't great. It's a weird texture, like the way it feels is weird, and he did end up sending it back. He started to kind of fray a little bit already. I mean, he had the phone in there for just a few days and he's like, yeah, I'm gonna send that back, that's not gonna cut it.

Tom: 29:44

And I've seen some other pictures that people have posted and I don't know it's. If Apple will make money off of it, they'll continue to sell it, and if they do not, they'll come up with something else. Right, yeah, I will. And, by the way, the leather cases we talked about last time too, those have not been good of late either. So it's you trade one for the other. And I think the thing and we talked about it and Gannon mentioned it to me too that his words were it felt more like a $29 case than a $59 case.

Tom: 30:13

And I think this is what a lot of people have said. They're like this was $29 or $39? That, okay, that's not too bad. But you're telling, okay, we're not doing the leather cases, which are the upsell right For the cases. You get your silicone and you get the leather and this is to replace it, but it doesn't quality wise feel like a replacement. It feels like two or three steps below that.

Tom: 30:36

So, anyhow, I won't get one of those. That's why I'm really curious to see, once you get the leather case that you've got coming Not that I'm not even in the market for one Like the one I have from Apple for the 14, I got black this time, so you can't really tell, like when the edges and stuff get dinged up. So it'll be fine.

Jeff: 30:56

Yeah, and I will say I did look at that bullstrap leather one before I you know, yeah, and you said you really thought what the quality is. Oh my gosh quality is freaking ridiculous and it's the kind of thing like the Apple cases don't age well.

Tom: 31:13

Not anymore. They used to.

Jeff: 31:15

This, I feel like, is gonna age pretty well, like it's gonna be pretty nice. Yes, I'm killing the ozone by having leather, but I still am gonna, I think, try to go naked most of the time, then maybe if I go out to dinner or something. I'll put the leather case on it.

Tom: 31:34

Dress it up a bit yeah which you know.

Jeff: 31:38

I do change my watch faces to match my clothes, like I change the color of my watch face to match. Why not Just a silly fun thing to do? But I will have the fine woven and we'll have a little talk about that next week. I thought I was gonna get it sometime yesterday or today, but it's arriving apparently tomorrow. Thank you, Amazon, and you couldn't. I couldn't get them. Actually, I went to Best Buy to try to get one and they had sold out of everything other than one silicon case.

Tom: 32:12

Jeez, that was it. Usually the way it goes that first week it's like well, we got 20 and we sold them all Sounds like okay. All right, so we will continue to monitor the case situation with you as that comes in Software side of things, we got a whole bunch of new software, as we talked about at the top of the show. You'd been running the betas all summer once they came out.

Jeff: 32:34

So I don't think well For the last month.

Tom: 32:37

Okay, didn't jump in right away, so you've had those for a while. I had only run the beta of Sonoma on the work machine and, as betas go, that one was pretty solid, and so I upgraded my Mac mini on Tuesday when it came out and haven't noticed any issues with that. I haven't spent much time on that and we'll get to that in a minute. It's kind of a low key upgrade.

Jeff: 33:02

Yeah, it definitely is.

Tom: 33:03

Some little quality of life things, depending on which applications you use. Like it's nice to have the widgets on the desktop, kind of like that, the screensaver desktop, of course. Once they showed that I kind of expressed how happy I was about that. It has not been a disappointment, that has been great. But I think that kind of says in terms of features, if you're talking about widgets on the desktop and screensavers as the marquee features, it's a service pack, as they used to say for windows back in the day.

Jeff: 33:33

Yeah, it's interesting because Apple for a while and they kind of got off this cycle for a while Like, if I think back to Snow Lepard, what they would do is they would do a significant upgrade and then they would do some retooling underneath so you didn't get a lot on the front end, and then they would do another significant facelift and then the next version they would do something.

Tom: 33:58

Yeah, Leopard Snow, Lepard Lion, Mountain Lion, Yep, All of those.

Jeff: 34:02

They almost did some of that with Sierra Hi Sierra, but they've yeah, not quite, and they kind of fell off of that when they were doing the trying to match the iOS and now iPad OS and Mac OS cycle. They're trying to do everything at once.

Tom: 34:18

And it's a little bit. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Because if they don't do a Mac upgrade to bring the iOS stuff over, then people say see, they don't care about the Mac, they only care about the iPhone. And then, when they do do it, why are they upgrading all the time? We don't need an upgrade every year and so and it is what it is. I think they do aim to do a good job. Sometimes they nail it, sometimes they fall short, like we all do.

Jeff: 34:45

Yeah, I would say that's true, but I'm very happy with Sonoma. It's funny. I had to adjust settings on my computer in order to enjoy the benefits of the screensaver, because I usually just have my computer blink off. I never go to a screensaver. So I really am enjoying that, and it's also changing my desktop backgrounds in the same way.

Tom: 35:12

So gorgeous pictures, yeah, that whole transition from when you log in and the screen kind of comes to a stop, and that's really nice.

Jeff: 35:20

It seems so simple, but it's a nice effect and those are the nice details that you like to have happen. It's like in the last, the preceding iOS update, where which both you and I raved about it and I still love this feature is that where it changes your home screen or your lock screen is really the one I have to do this with where it changes the pictures on every yeah.

Tom: 35:47

It's still used to get.

Jeff: 35:49

Same and I get so much delight out of that Every day, multiple times a day. Correct. And what's really kind of cool is now that I have a phone that has an always on screen, I can see pictures there too, which is Takes it next level, really, because, because sometimes you're just looking around and you're like oh, look at that I haven't seen that picture in forever.

Tom: 36:12

It kind of pops up. Those are really nice touches, agree. So, Go ahead.

Jeff: 36:18

Oh no, just good stuff and in iOS, the current version of iOS. Like I said, like you said, I've been working on it for a little bit and it's been solid. There's nothing, really, that drives me nuts.

Tom: 36:35

Any of the major new features in iOS you're taking advantage of or liking that stick out.

Jeff: 36:43

No, Like which one, I don't know, Like it's not, and this, I think this kind of goes to my point. You know, I will say, the thing that I have noticed and this is probably a new phone thing is that my ability, particularly with Dynamic Island, to connect to AirPods and AirPods HomePods that is working much better. But I don't know that that's an OS update and there's not a lot of stuff under the covers that I've taken advantage of. I don't think I have to kind of look around and play with it a little bit and see if there's anything, even that even appeals in some of the new features. So the answer is I've been a bad user in that regard. Well, Well talk to me Tom.

Tom: 37:35

I mean, geez, we do a podcast and all yeah, I know.

Jeff: 37:39

I'm supposed to pretend like I, you know, use every single thing yeah.

Tom: 37:45

So some of the messages stuff we've fooled around with. They did redo the that app tray for lack of a better word.

Tom: 37:54

I don't know if that's exactly what they call it. But when you're in a message in prior to iOS 17, they had that little bar that would run across the top at the keyboard. There you can choose images or stickers and things like that. They change that. So you just get a right next to the text field you get a plus symbol and then you tap that and then that brings up the list of apps. I kind of liked that better. It took me a little while to get used to it, just because it was different. It once, especially once I figured out you can press and hold on the list and rearrange things. So your most common ones are up at the top, like the images. One was kind of down too far, so I moved it up. Press and hold on that plus sign takes you right into the photo selector. So if you want to send someone a picture, you don't have to necessarily tap plus and then photos. You can just hold on the plus and then the photo selector comes up.

Tom: 38:43

So that's kind of a nice little touch there, so I do use that like that. Haven't done much in terms of like the new gestures for messages where you can swipe to reply and things like that.

Jeff: 38:57

Yeah, I haven't done that. I haven't done FaceTime and accidental thumbs up and had it go.

Tom: 39:04

Yeah, yeah, we were doing that in zoom today at work and Because it carries over to that right, because it's part of it. The stickers, that the new thing with the stickers. We can do it on your photos that that's a that's nicely implemented. It is actually I'll use it a lot, but it's it's very nicely implemented. It was kind of fun to play around with and my mom got excited about it.

Tom: 39:26

So I showed her how to do it now she's sending everyone stickers, so they're probably cursing my name for that. So that was kind of nice.

Jeff: 39:36

What I have used, and kind of used by accident, because I wasn't even thinking that it was there, but I screened a phone call the other day. It was getting a phone call from someone. Yeah and I. It was not a number that I recognized, and so I kicked it to voicemail and and it put the voicemail on the screen. I was able to pick it up and talk to the person in the middle, and, which was great, it was somebody I needed to talk to good it wasn't for.

Tom: 40:03

about your extended warranty? No, it definitely wasn't about my extended warranty.

Jeff: 40:07

It was something. It was hey, I'm here at the place and you're not here. And I was expecting a phone call before, like when, when the person was on their way, so I was able to pick it up, say, hey, I'm getting in the car, I'll be right over, you know, kind of kind of thing. Yeah, so that's a nice feature. It's old school in terms of, you know, screening your messages, but, right, I did use it and I really do like that. It's pretty great.

Tom: 40:34

I've looked at Standby a little bit. I think in the last show I called that by the wrong name. It's standby nut. I keep wanting to say it's nightstand or something.

Jeff: 40:42

I can't really say it, but it was stupid.

Tom: 40:45

I said but I have looked at that problem with me. That for that is. I think that would be nice If you've got a mag safe charger where you can plop the phone up there and then you can actually use it. But I don't have that yet, but it's making me consider. Maybe do doing that. We'll see Interactive widgets. That's nice. I. Used one of those today too, without realizing it was working, so it's nice to be able to Mark off what to do was done without it switching into the app.

Jeff: 41:14

So that's yeah, I really I did it accidentally. Today I had something fantastic howl that I had to say was done. I tapped it and it worked. Didn't that task out? So that was, that is a nice thing, yeah. So so when you say, have I used anything? I have used to have, but but and this is kind of a beautiful thing about that is that I Used them without realizing. I discovered them Magically, if you will, you know, rather than and that used to be an an old you know, apple has always been of a mind where they let you kind of discover features and when you you do something is like oh, look at how this does this and that's kind of how this has worked. For me it's kind of a little bit more the way of discovery. So I like it.

Tom: 42:02

Yeah, yep, it has been pretty good. The air drop stuff is nice.

Jeff: 42:07

Where you just bring the phones together.

Tom: 42:09

You know close by, you can bump them. You don't have to bump them. But it's got a nice little effect and everything and so that that was kind of nice. It seemed work fine. I've only done it a couple of times. That's still airdrop, so did it. Who knows if sometimes it'll work, sometimes it won't, we'll see. Maybe it'll work all the time now I have no idea. That was kind of nice and that's really top of mind for me of the stuff that I've noticed and have actually used For iOS.

Jeff: 42:35

Yeah, I I will use A downloaded maps for offline use.

Tom: 42:40

Yeah, that'll be a good one definitely, particularly for hiking.

Jeff: 42:43

I'll use that. I have not had opportunity to do that yet, but okay, I definitely will. But here's here's a question, tom how are you liking watch OS Mmm?

Tom: 43:01

That talking to me, baby. So I have stated on this show and I've stated to you multiple times in messages and things like that well, we were watching the keynote and the event, I told you if I were going to work at Apple and the watch is the product I would like to work on. No, I'm a big fan of Apple watch. I love the Apple watch. I have loved the Apple watch. I'm all say I love series zero, series two, like the premise or the promise that it had. Yeah, it kept me around. So I said, okay, this is gonna get better, it's gonna get faster, the software will catch up and hardware will make it better and and it did. Screens got bigger, it's brighter or everything you know started to hom and it's. It's been great.

Jeff: 43:42

Mm-hmm I.

Tom: 43:44

Do not like this update.

Jeff: 43:46

Tell us why.

Tom: 43:47

Tom, and, and I will say, as we mentioned earlier, sometimes you do things and they turn out great. Sometimes you do things and they turn out average. Sometimes you do things and they turn out not well. There are parts of it that I do, like it's not a complete clunker right and it's not but I feel, and at first I thought it was just me, and then I started to look around and I'm far from the only person. I sent you that reddit thread and it was like my tribe was there.

Jeff: 44:19

Like my people, look at you guys.

Tom: 44:23

And I think the guy says ten things I hate about watch OS 10 or whatever you named it it was, and there's just. It feels and I'll preface it with this that we don't know what's coming up. So some of these changes that right now seem arbitrary and kind of goofy and it's like change for the sake of change. Apple's track record typically is pretty good, so I was like, okay, maybe they shot and they missed. Maybe there's something coming up in the super redesigned watch or Series 10 watch, this coming up where it's be like oh, that's why they were training us to do it this way instead of the old way, because this was coming out next year but it's not here yet, so we can only go with what we have today. It feels to me that it is far more cumbersome to use. Things take extra taps, extra clicks. They've removed features, they've moved features.

Tom: 45:17

It's a cluster, hmm, to me, and I know some people are content with it and I think it's just like everything else. It's okay. What pieces do you actually use of it? And if you're a very casual user and you just use a face and you know, check your messages and stuff like that, it's probably okay. But first off, the thing most people seem to be complaining about is it used to be super Easy to switch between watch faces. You would just swipe right and you get go between the faces. Can't do that anymore. You've got to tap and hold right.

Jeff: 45:49

I feel that which yeah.

Tom: 45:52

Yeah, and I never switched like. I had, you know, three or four watch faces I would use, but they were in particular Situations like and so like from one to the gym I would put on a different watch face, just so.

Tom: 46:02

I'd have you know the set of complications that were more applicable for that activity, things like that, and so that one I didn't use a lot, but still it was nice just to do that. And this seems to me and again we don't know what's coming but it almost feels like well, that's the way you do it on iPhone. That's the way you do it now on iPad you press and hold and then you swipe between your lock screens. So it's consistency and it's like, well, maybe it is, but it it's worse.

Jeff: 46:31

Right, there's more effort involved. I'm gonna throw something at you I know you're building a gym, so you're gonna walk to your garage pretty soon, you know but One of the easier ways. I think that that could be resolved and I agree with you, it should be super easy to change those screens. But if you had a Location directed focus, it would do that like and I have.

Tom: 46:57

I used to do that with an automation when I was driving over To the wellness center, like when I pulled into the parking lot. I had an automation that was switched to the face and start a work. Yeah, and it's funny I haven't disabled that and we've got a campus near that, and so when I drive over there, it's like now switching to ship Still a work, I don't need it yet.

Jeff: 47:15

Which I should, just yeah, but that's, that doesn't resolve the issue. And I agree with you. I was. I thought it was an idiot actually when I was using the betas, because I was like I want to change my watch face and it was sliding over from the oh. Yeah, and finally realized I had to press, press and hold in order to be able to do that.

Tom: 47:36

I agree that's a little Dumb right and think is, if it had been that way from the start, that that's just the way it is. So yeah, try to balance it a little bit with that. And then I know, you know, there were times where I'd bump it with something and it would actually not only change and I'd have Swing it back and so that one I'm like, okay, it's, it ain't great, but it's. I mean it's certainly not the worst. Thing.

Tom: 47:58

No so there's, what is the worst? Thing? Oh, there's, it's coming, I got a list. I know you do. Maybe longer than 10 it is, we won't go through them all, but okay, great. The control center mm-hmm.

Tom: 48:15

Used to swipe up to get to control center, yes, and now it's a side button, yes, why? I have no idea. No clue why, other than now, if you swipe up, you get the smart stacks Right. Apple seems intent on getting us to use these smart stacks we had that was as glances. Way back in the day in early watch OS versions. We had the Siri watch face, which was supposed to surface the information you need when you need it, and that didn't really work Right, so maybe it works better here.

Tom: 48:43

I I don't know Jury's out on that one we'll see, but they also, though, have that if you turn the crown.

Jeff: 48:52

Yes, right, it does that.

Tom: 48:54

I'm just going to say that that pissed a bunch of people off, because on the Ultra, that used to be how you got in tonight mode with the red watch face on the Wayfinder face and now on the new modular Ultra face, and so now you have a setting by default is set to auto, so it uses the ambient sensor and we'll turn the watch face. Red watch face, the red watch face is really nice. I like it a lot. Yes, but there are times where if my sleeve is down and it's covering the thing, it's like, oh, night mode, I'm like no, no, that's not night mode yet and you can turn it off in the settings for the face.

Tom: 49:31

So but a lot of people complained about that one. It's an annoyance. It didn't really make me matter anything like that the let's see where do I want to go next.

Jeff: 49:44

There's so much, Well, let me let me say related to that, and using the, the, what used to be able to change it to night mode. You also used to be able to scroll through your list of of apps that way, and if the one in the center, if you scrolled up, it would zoom right into it and open the app, and that's not there anymore.

Tom: 50:07

Right, which is another because you can't really move that honeycomb list around. Just goes down, but it doesn't like it used to go like 360. Yeah, but you can't do that.

Jeff: 50:21

Talk to me about workouts, Tom.

Tom: 50:23

Oh, jeff.

Jeff: 50:24

I'm just going to jump right to it Band-aid. I want it right? Okay, tear it off.

Tom: 50:29

Let's so the workout app. I use the action button on the ultra to start the workout app. As do I. That still works fine, no problem. Where I've run into some friction with that Now that wasn't there before is sometimes I will do multi mode workouts, so I will hit the air bike for 15 minutes. I'll do maybe stretching for 20 minutes after that or a flexibility, as they have it labeled such and used to be.

Tom: 50:57

You'd be in the midst of the first workout. You would swipe to the right and you had four things to choose from there. Now you have three. The one they took away was new, so you would just tap new. It would start the new workout, you will prompt you to choose which type of workout it was and then it would start. Now there's just an empty spot there which looks unbalanced and it looks messy, but you have to end the workout and then the confirmation that comes up now which, too, I don't really like says and workout or new workout. And I'm like this. This makes no damn sense to me and it's like, if I'm ending, I don't want to know, I want to know, I want to know, I just want to know. Put the damn button back.

Tom: 51:46

But the other thing that I use frequently during workouts is the timers app. Yes, that took about four steps backwards and you used to be able to set favorites and they would show right up at the top of the list. So the ones that I commonly use during workout, as I'm sure most people do if they're going to the gym and doing weights and things like that is, you do your set, you have your rest period. So it would be depending on what type of workout you're doing. If you're doing high reps, you rest period shorter. You're doing low reps with heavier weights, usually your rest periods are longer. So I have favorites for one minute, two minutes, three minutes Super simple to get to. That's gone, so you get resins. So that's pretty annoying. I've often wondered why, like they haven't just put something like that into the workout app like a shortcut to the timers.

Tom: 52:40

They've got. Hey guess what? They've got an open spot there now or they.

Jeff: 52:43

could you just swipe and go right to the timers?

Tom: 52:46

See, you can fill that spot.

Tom: 52:49

The thing, though, that kind of complicates that even more and makes it even messier, is you used to be able to double press the digital crown and it was like an app switcher. So if you were in the workout app, you went over to the timers, you double pressed the crown, you're back in the workout app. That's gone. You get like a recent app or a list of recent apps and like that little card format that they have. So you can still do it, but you have to kind of pack around and stuff, and so this is what I'm saying is like every not everything, but too many things are just there's like an extra tap, it's an extra swipe, it's an extra dig down this way and find this, and it just seems for a small screen device that I just don't want to fiddle with it that much. You got us used to this and I thought it was pretty good. Like I can see if they wanted to do visual changes, right, but they did so many changes in the way that it operates.

Jeff: 53:49

And one of the things, and I think this is important to note. So, yes, you did point me to it Reddit, where everybody was crying about this, but I think the point is it's not just you, right? You know there are a bunch of people who have this same feeling about these things, and I'm a newer watch user and, like I said, I changed my watch face because, you know, I got a nice shirt on and I want my watch face to match my nice shirt. I have a watch face for when we're doing what we're doing, right?

Jeff: 54:23

now they have a particular one that I use when we're recording. I have one. Actually, now that you've set that is pretty much my day today. You sent me a nice watch face that I like. That I've made a couple of fine changes to, but for the most part I liked what you had done with it. So I'm keeping that and I have a working day watch face that is different than that. That has some things on it which I change when I change focus. So I have a focus that goes on when I start work at nine in the morning that automatically changes those things. When it comes to workouts, I'm not doing what you're doing. So I haven't. I didn't feel any of that friction. At the start. I did notice that I had to do an extra step in order to end, like if I was ending a hike. It did take long and was like okay, whatever. When you're doing a bunch of embedded workouts, I could see where that's a royal pain in the neck, so I can.

Tom: 55:21

And I think it's one of those things where if it was, you know if it was one thing, two things, but it's kind of snowballed into death by a thousand cuts that old phrase, right. It's just little annoyances that I felt like they had the interface pretty finely tuned, like with the watchOS nine, like, and that's what I say is if they wanted to spruce up the visual components of it. I don't like the new activity app, like when you open it goes to the rings full size and then you've got to scroll or swipe to see your move, your exercise stand and things like that. I will say it seems to be better for me on my series seven.

Tom: 56:02

It seemed like on the ultra watch, the crown, the tension it takes to get it to move, flip between the different screens is more, and so it's like you flip it and like it doesn't go and then it skips to and it's like, oh boy, um. So that's a little messy and some of the like visual fade in and things like that make it seem kind of not smooth, um, but you know, good thing about software is any of that stuff if enough people complain about it, they can fix it. I mean it's not like it's a hardware flaw or something like that, right, um, and so we'll give them some time but I know a lot of people have been kind of and I still big fan of the watch um that new face.

Jeff: 56:42

I love it. I really like. Yeah, it is, it's great. It really is great and the fact that you can create multiples of it for a variety, right.

Tom: 56:50

And the last, or the timer thing to kind of get around that uh that I was complaining about, is I set up an automation so that when I started a particular workout type where I use the timers, which is mostly strength training that kind of thing, um it switches to a face where the bottom three complications on that uh new watch face are timers one minute, two minutes, three minutes.

Tom: 57:11

Oh we'll get you, but that didn't quite. I shouldn't have to do that, I shouldn't, but I don't, I don't. Okay, it didn't take long. But even with that, like when I do it, it takes you two minutes, two the two minute timer, for example, but it doesn't start it. It started Right. I was like, oh, still another time. Come on y'all Um the Snoopy face Cute. Yeah, I'll never use it like on the existence show, enough stuff. But I'll admit like sometimes in the evenings I put it on and I chuckle at the goofy animations and stuff that they did.

Jeff: 57:40

I wasn't even going to put it on.

Tom: 57:42

So credit where credit's due with that and and again, you know, not completely satisfied with it. But I mean they're the trying things and we'll see where they go. I mean it's 10.0. Let's see, we're at 10.1, 10.2. Then when 11 comes out and and stuff and people adapt. We get used to things and it was not as good as it was back then. Well, no, but it's okay Sounds like tradwife Twitter. Who.

Jeff: 58:07

Tradwife, you've never seen that traditional wife. Oh yeah, everything's better when you're walking around in a crazy dress and you know making breakfast Just by killing the cow Whoa.

Tom: 58:21

Yeah, I hadn't heard of that. Yeah, so those are my thoughts on the watch OS. Yeah, but I still love my watch.

Jeff: 58:30

Yeah, I'm, you know, like I said, I'm in and I've been using iPad OS.

Tom: 58:36

We're not going to talk about it on this show because it's it's getting close Time to wrap this up.

Jeff: 58:39

It is time I've been doing a big stage manager experiment and yeah, we'll want to hear more about that, so maybe next show we'll throw that in.

Tom: 58:47

I think we've got a. Might have to be two shows from now. I think we've got a guest coming up pretty soon. Look at us, I guess. Yeah, Another guest.

Jeff: 58:54

People seem to listen. Well, we have guests. I don't know what that means, but that means other people have friends and we don't True that it's just us man, two, two old loners.

Tom: 59:05

All right, all right. Well, I think, jeff, I think we pretty much covered everything we have.

Jeff: 59:09

I think we have, I think we've nailed it and this is a great reminder that you can get to us at feedback at basicafshowcom. We definitely are interested in in hearing from you Back catalog basicafshowcom or in your favorite podcast feed. Artwork by Randall Martin Design. Randall's the best. We should put this at the front of the show and not the end, but we'll talk about that later. And then Psychokinetics is our music and Psychokinetics kills it. Check them out and have a listen on iTunes, spotify or wherever you get your favorite music.

Tom: 59:48

Well done.

Jeff: 59:50

Look at me, I can read things.

Tom: 59:51

Well, that's it. So, once again, as always, we do appreciate you being here with us. Have a great rest of your day, rest of your night, and we will talk to you next time, see ya.

Jeff: 1:00:16

Bye.