Basic AF: a (mostly) tech podcast

Apple's DOJ Challenge and Vision Pro's Immersive Dilemma

April 01, 2024 Tom Anderson & Jeff Battersby Episode 32
Basic AF: a (mostly) tech podcast
Apple's DOJ Challenge and Vision Pro's Immersive Dilemma
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

This episode looks into the US Department of Justice's lawsuit against Apple, exploring the claims of monopolistic behavior and its implications for the company and its customers. We also navigate the virtual realms of Apple's Vision Pro, discussing the scarcity of immersive content, why Apple hasn't provided more content, and what may be ahead as part of visionOS 2. Plus, Apple announces the dates for WWDC in June.

Links from the show:
MLB for visionOS strikes out on Opening Day
Apple's Immersive Video Problem
New Celsius 7 - Moon Patrol

Contact Us

Enjoy Basic AF? Leave a review or rating!

Intro Music: Psychokinetics - The Chosen

Show transcripts and episode artwork are AI generated and likely contain errors and general silliness.


Jeff Battersby (0s)
a beard, a bong, and we can move back in.

Tom Anderson (0s)
We'll have your favorite guy, Elon, come on at that point.

Tom Anderson (12s)
Hello and welcome to another episode of Basic AF.

Tom Anderson (15s)
Tom Anderson and Jeff Battersby behind the mics yet again.

Tom Anderson (18s)
Jeff having some type of a seizure listening to the intro music like he always does, but I've come to just, just ignore it.

Tom Anderson (24s)
And he eventually snaps out of it.

Tom Anderson (26s)
So howdy, Jeff.

Jeff Battersby (28s)  
Good morning, Tom, how are you?

Tom Anderson (30s)

Jeff Battersby (31s)
Is that what you're referring to?

Jeff Battersby (33s)
Am I doing the Elaine Bennis School of Dancing here or something like that?

Tom Anderson (36s)
Wasn't far from it.

Jeff Battersby (41s)
Yeah, I'm sorry, Tom, I didn't mean to make your morning,

Jeff Battersby (44s)
you know, require a trip to the bathroom.

Tom Anderson (48s)
Well, it's right outside of the pod closet here, so if I need to get there, it's a couple

Jeff Battersby (54s)
Good, excellent.

Jeff Battersby (55s)
We'll take a brief break while Tom heaves his guts into the white throne.

Tom Anderson (1m)
Oof. Let's hope not. Don't need any parts of that.

Tom Anderson (1m 6s)

Jeff Battersby (1m 8s)
Off to a good start, Tom.

Tom Anderson (1m 9s)
All right, Jeff, you want to do our intro housekeeping stuff?

Jeff Battersby (1m 9s)
We are off to a good start.

Jeff Battersby (1m 12s)
Sure, sure.

Jeff Battersby (1m 13s)
So just a couple of reminders here.

Jeff Battersby (1m 15s)
You can find us at

Jeff Battersby (1m 18s)
That should be no surprise.

Jeff Battersby (1m 19s)
feedback at basic.

Jeff Battersby (1m 20s)
AF will be happy to respond to you by the way.

Jeff Battersby (1m 25s)
You know, we are on other other platforms where you can send messages.

Jeff Battersby (1m 31s)
I believe there's a threads account for basic AF show.

Jeff Battersby (1m 35s)
No, am I lying?

Tom Anderson (1m 35s)
Yes, no, you're right. Yep threads and Instagram

Jeff Battersby (1m 36s)

Jeff Battersby (1m 36s)

Jeff Battersby (1m 39s)
Yeah, so you can you can send us little requests there.

Jeff Battersby (1m 43s)
Be happy to do that.

Jeff Battersby (1m 45s)
Show music that I dance to apparently looking like I'm having some kind of seizure.

Jeff Battersby (1m 50s)
His psychokinetics in the amazing Celsius 7.

Jeff Battersby (1m 57s)
By the way, really kind of interesting that talking about Celsius 7, he does have a new album out that is no singing just or no hip hop and it's really good music and I had it pop on, I was listening to music the other day as I often do.

Jeff Battersby (2m 20s)
While I'm cooking or doing things like that and was not listening to Radio Paradise, I was shuffling my songs and had one of his tunes pop up and am always pleasantly surprised by how good it is.

Jeff Battersby (2m 34s)
I mean that in the best way possible.

Tom Anderson (2m 34s)  
• Right. - Right.

Jeff Battersby (2m 35s)
It's like, "Oh, who is this?

Jeff Battersby (2m 37s)
Oh, dude, it's Celsius 7."

Jeff Battersby (2m 40s)
So I highly recommend that you, uh, I think we will, um, had some shoulder surgery.

Tom Anderson (2m 42s)
Yeah, we still need to get him to come on sometime.

Jeff Battersby (2m 51s)
So I was having a hard time, you know, thinking about doing anything like that and that shoulder surgery recovery takes a little minute, but, uh, yeah, I think we can definitely do that.

Jeff Battersby (3m)
But anyway, all that to say, um, we can maybe even put a link to that new album in the show notes just so you can go check it out.

Jeff Battersby (3m 7s)
Highly worthwhile, really good, uh, really good kind of fun listen.

Jeff Battersby (3m 11s)
So I recommend that, uh, our main podcast artwork by Randall Martin Design, uh, highly I highly recommend that you check it out.

Jeff Battersby (3m 20s)
Yes, we're using AI, sorry, Randall, for specific show stuff, but our main podcast artwork is Randall.

Jeff Battersby (3m 33s)
So check his stuff out.

Tom Anderson (3m 33s)
Yep, and we love it

Jeff Battersby (3m 35s)
Yeah, it's the best.

Jeff Battersby (3m 36s)
I still see our artwork in podcast apps and it looks frigging phenomenal.

Jeff Battersby (3m 46s)
It really is amazing, I like it a lot.

Tom Anderson (3m 47s)
Yeah, he does great work.

Jeff Battersby (3m 50s)
That's it, there's all the stuff.

Tom Anderson (3m 51s)
All right, so before we get into the meat of this episode, a quick follow-up from the last episode, which was my experience with Apple Vision Pro, we had a follow-up question from listener Mike said, "I really liked the episode where you talked about your experience.

Listener Follow Up

Tom Anderson (4m 7s)
The one question I had, are you still using it on a regular basis or has the novelty worn off?"

Tom Anderson (4m 13s)
That was a good question because that's very common with VR headsets is.

Tom Anderson (4m 18s)
God, what am I going to do with this?

Tom Anderson (4m 19s)
And it just kind of sits around.

Jeff Battersby (4m 21s)  
• Yeah, so what's the answer, Tom?

Tom Anderson (4m 21s)
So the answer is, yes, I am still using it probably four to five times a week.

Tom Anderson (4m 29s)
Um, anywhere from 15 to 50 minutes, um, a day, uh, I would say, um,

Jeff Battersby (4m 40s)
So wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, 15 to 5-0 minutes, that doesn't seem like a lot.

Tom Anderson (4m 44s)

Jeff Battersby (4m 45s)
Okay. [laughs]

Tom Anderson (4m 46s)
Let's not.

Tom Anderson (4m 50s)
But that's okay.

Tom Anderson (4m 51s)
I didn't, I can't remember if we talked about this or not

Tom Anderson (4m 56s)
in that episode, but the,

Tom Anderson (4m 59s)
I don't expect to wear it for hours a day.

Tom Anderson (5m 4s)
I have used it this week for the Mac virtual display a good bit, 'cause I've been doing some work there and I wanted, it was on the laptop and I wanted the bigger display,

Tom Anderson (5m 12s)
which we talked about how much I like that.

Jeff Battersby (5m 13s)  
• Right, yeah, yeah.

Tom Anderson (5m 13s)
Yeah, so definitely an accessory device.

Tom Anderson (5m 18s)
But, you know, there are some days I don't use my iPad at all either.

Tom Anderson (5m 21s)
And so it's, you know, it's there when I want to use it.

Tom Anderson (5m 26s)
And then if not, like, I'm not forcing myself to put it on.

Jeff Battersby (5m 31s)
Okay, yeah, and what about the kids?

Tom Anderson (5m 31s)
Yeah, so the kids, they've moved on.

Tom Anderson (5m 40s)
Well, you know, Andrew's been working a lot.

Tom Anderson (5m 42s)
And he's coming up towards graduation for high school and stuff.

Tom Anderson (5m 45s)
stuff. But I do.

Tom Anderson (5m 47s)
think he does use it and doesn't tell me while I'm at work, which is fine. I mean, I didn't have to ask for permission or anything, but I think he still does a little bit here and there. The younger one is, to my knowledge, hasn't used it too much.

Jeff Battersby (6m)
Okay, interesting. All right, cool and when you're using it mostly work-related or leisure

Tom Anderson (6m 2s)
Yeah, so there you go.

Tom Anderson (6m 7s)
I would say it's more leisure.

Jeff Battersby (6m 9s)
Okay All right, and we're gonna touch on a couple of those things in a second

Jeff Battersby (6m 15s)
Because it's still kind of on the on the event horizon

Jeff Battersby (6m 20s)
but yeah, that's so that's interesting and Mike thanks for

Jeff Battersby (6m 26s)
Thanks for asking we always like questions because 'cause...

Jeff Battersby (6m 30s)
We're good liars and we can fake answers in any fashion possible.

Tom Anderson (6m 33s)
But for the record, we do not fake questions.

Tom Anderson (6m 38s)

Jeff Battersby (6m 38s)
We don't fake questions, that's correct.

Tom Anderson (6m 39s)
No, we don't make it sound like we're getting more questions than we are.

Jeff Battersby (6m 41s)
No, I like it.

Jeff Battersby (6m 44s)
I like it.

Jeff Battersby (6m 46s)
So Tom, let's jump into the next big piece.

DOJ v Apple

Jeff Battersby (6m 52s)
The Department of Justice has sued Apple.

Jeff Battersby (6m 57s)
Yeah, it's kind of interesting, yeah.

Jeff Battersby (6m 59s)
Lawsuit filed March

Jeff Battersby (7m)
21st 2024

Jeff Battersby (7m 2s)
Filed in the u.s. District Court for the District of New Jersey

Jeff Battersby (7m 7s)
Yeah, okay, so the mobs of no I didn't say

Jeff Battersby (7m 14s)
It's a garden state the gardeners are involved

Jeff Battersby (7m 17s)
And what the DOJ is saying is and along with 16 other state attorneys general They're accusing Apple of monopolizing or attempting to monopolize smartphone markets in violation of the Sherman Act

Jeff Battersby (7m 30s)
as do you

Tom Anderson (7m 32s)
we have a link to it mm-hmm so if you want to know what it is you'll have to look it up yourself with the

Jeff Battersby (7m 35s)
Do the Sherman Act dang Tom you're doing good work

Jeff Battersby (7m 43s)
Yeah, I have no idea what it what it is

Jeff Battersby (7m 47s)
But basically the idea is that Apple's

Tom Anderson (7m 49s)
It's to do with monopolies, but not the game, right?

Jeff Battersby (7m 50s)
Yeah, right and not the board game

Jeff Battersby (7m 54s)
Which is in the news too, but

Tom Anderson (7m 57s)
Prohibits monopolization or attempts to monopolize any part of trade or commerce.

Jeff Battersby (8m 2s)

Jeff Battersby (8m 3s)
Which, you know, the reason being that the DOJ is alleging that Apple has blocked super apps, suppresses mobile cloud streaming services, limits third-party digital wallets, and more to maintain its dominance.

Jeff Battersby (8m 23s)
I don't know, man.

Jeff Battersby (8m 31s)  
I, I don't.

Jeff Battersby (8m 33s)
So let's talk about this.

Jeff Battersby (8m 34s)
The European Union has already done a bunch of stuff like this.

Jeff Battersby (8m 37s)
You know, they've made it so Apple's had to open up their app store market to other places, other people.

Jeff Battersby (8m 47s)
Part of what I consider a benefit of the Apple universe is the fact that it is kind of closed.

Jeff Battersby (8m 57s)
I know, you know, the real nerdy birds,

Jeff Battersby (8m 59s)
nerdier than me, get ticked off that you can't do whatever the heck you want.

Jeff Battersby (9m 3s)
on your phone without jailbreaking it,

Jeff Battersby (9m 5s)
which, you know, voids any worries about your stuff getting taken.

Jeff Battersby (9m 15s)
I do get that Apple, you know,

Jeff Battersby (9m 17s)
what are they, they trim like a third off of anything that goes through the app store.

Tom Anderson (9m 23s)  
• Yeah, 30 and they've modified that.

Tom Anderson (9m 25s)
It used to be 30% no matter what.

Tom Anderson (9m 27s)
And now I think they've got some scenarios where it's 30%

Tom Anderson (9m 30s)
and then after a period of time, it'll drop down to 15%.

Tom Anderson (9m 33s)
And I feel like that's for some of the streaming services too.

Tom Anderson (9m 36s)
And it may be only just for them.

Tom Anderson (9m 38s)
I'm not sure exactly.

Jeff Battersby (9m 40s)

Jeff Battersby (9m 40s)
So, uh, since we're talking about New Jersey and the mob, that feels like a VIG, you know, you have to pay when the guy shows up for the envelope full of money, you better take care of it.

Tom Anderson (9m 49s)
pay for security.

Jeff Battersby (9m 54s)
Otherwise, you know, it's a, it, it, it, that is probably, that's a big chunk,

Jeff Battersby (10m)
you know, but that being said, Apple is providing a lot of the hosting for this.

Jeff Battersby (10m 7s)
Um, you know, they're, they're.

Jeff Battersby (10m 10s)
Are the one that have set up the marketplace.

Jeff Battersby (10m 12s)
And so, I don't know, I, I wish I knew more about retail, you know, what it is that, you know, that gets paid back to the various manufacturers and, you know,

Jeff Battersby (10m 21s)
what the manufacturers are paying to have, you know, say their bag of chips on the end cap at the grocery store, you know, that's, that's real estate that those, those grocery stores get to charge for, because, you know, it's a, it's a

Tom Anderson (10m 36s)
Yeah, I mean, it's not an insignificant amount of money, that's for sure.

Tom Anderson (10m 39s)
But as you mentioned, they provide the store, they provide the distribution.

Tom Anderson (10m 46s)
So of course, they've been in this long battle Apple has with Epic Games, and no Fortnite and everything.

Tom Anderson (10m 56s)
So Epic has been going back and forth, and so they will be launching an Epic Games store on the iPhone in the EU later this year.

Tom Anderson (11m 6s)
They'll take a 12% cut of sales when that launches.

Tom Anderson (11m 13s)
So not too far from 15%.

Tom Anderson (11m 18s)
There's probably some merit to some of this stuff, especially with the digital wallets,

Tom Anderson (11m 24s)

Tom Anderson (11m 25s)
Because if you want to do that, you've got the wallet Apple provides, and that's it.

Jeff Battersby (11m 30s)
What other digital wallets I mean, I mean don't want to be a complete moron, but

Tom Anderson (11m 33s)
I have no idea because we're Apple fanboys.

Tom Anderson (11m 36s)
and locked into the Apple walled garden.

Jeff Battersby (11m 37s)
And that's

Tom Anderson (11m 38s)
I don't know what goes on outside of there.

Jeff Battersby (11m 40s)
Right, and there's some some features by the way to that so, you know, for example, if I use my debit card, which I do all the time either on my watch or

Jeff Battersby (11m 48s)
Or my phone at the grocery store it randomizes

Jeff Battersby (11m 53s)
That that card number so, you know the the kinds of things that are problematic

Jeff Battersby (12m)
Like, you know credit card skimming you know, which are things that

Jeff Battersby (12m 6s)
In fact, I remember seeing some video either on Twitter or threads a couple months ago where?

Jeff Battersby (12m 13s)
Some guy went into some grocery store

Jeff Battersby (12m 16s)
actually, it was probably like a little you know corner corner convenience market and

Jeff Battersby (12m 22s)
On the front of the guy's credit card reader to the place he pulled off of it pulled off of it a another

Jeff Battersby (12m 30s)
Face that was on that credit card reader that was skimming credit card numbers

Jeff Battersby (12m 35s)
So there

Jeff Battersby (12m 37s)
The fact that that those transactions are very secure that

Jeff Battersby (12m 44s)
It's a basically a one-time use credit card number that needs to you know, that's going through

Jeff Battersby (12m 52s)
There's a lot of security built into that I don't know

Jeff Battersby (12m 56s)
You know, I don't and I'm not familiar with any other wallet

Jeff Battersby (13m)
maybe again because we're only using Apple devices. That may be the reason, but I consider those features.

Tom Anderson (13m 2s)
Yeah, it could be, well, cause we know Google's got something too, but like,

Tom Anderson (13m 8s)
so I don't know if they're thinking, oh, you should be able to use your Google wallet on an iPhone, just like you do on an Android device, maybe stuff like that.

Jeff Battersby (13m 15s)
Yeah. I guess. I don't know. I never would.

Tom Anderson (13m 16s)
So, yeah, I don't know.

Tom Anderson (13m 17s)
Um, and I know that they also mentioned like, uh, you know, smart watches, you know, you've got to have an iPhone to use the Apple watch.

Jeff Battersby (13m 27s)
Yeah, although that's not 100% true with the with you can you can just get an Apple Watch better, but you can get an Apple Watch with cellular cellular connectivity. Yeah, true enough.

Tom Anderson (13m 38s)
Right, but you got to pair it to get it started.

Tom Anderson (13m 42s)

Tom Anderson (13m 43s)
Now if you have, you know, if a kid, if your kid's got an Android phone and you want to give them an Apple watch, you could do that if you have an iPhone.

Tom Anderson (13m 51s)
So you know, I get that.

Tom Anderson (13m 53s)
And you know, Apple, you know, of course is saying this is ridiculous.

Tom Anderson (13m 58s)
This is how we have deeply integrated products and the security that we have and everything like that.

Tom Anderson (14m 3s)
You know, one of my problems with this is, is if you've ever watched any of the

Tom Anderson (14m 8s)
things they have like in Congress on tech issues, the idiots in DC don't know anything.

Jeff Battersby (14m 14s)
No, they don't.

Tom Anderson (14m 15s)
Well, about a lot of things, but in tech in general, that's it.

Jeff Battersby (14m 18s)
Tom, you're getting political.

Jeff Battersby (14m 20s)
You did it, though.

Tom Anderson (14m 20s)
I'm not going any, not going any deeper on that.

Jeff Battersby (14m 21s)
I just want to point out, you've led us into this.

Jeff Battersby (14m 23s)
I just want to be clear.

Tom Anderson (14m 24s)

Tom Anderson (14m 25s)
So, and so that's what bugs me, is these things.

Tom Anderson (14m 29s)
So I don't know.

Tom Anderson (14m 30s)
Apple's got a ton of money, DOJ's got a ton of taxpayer money they don't mind spending.

Tom Anderson (14m 34s)
And so we'll, we'll see how it shakes out.

Tom Anderson (14m 37s)
It's going to take years for that to happen.

Tom Anderson (14m 39s)
to work through the process and, you know, for the most people is boring and it's like, uh, whatever.

Jeff Battersby (14m 44s)
But I think it's important to understand, and again, I don't understand it at a level that I think I should understand it, because it will have implications, you know, as government stuff often does.

Tom Anderson (14m 58s)
It's almost guaranteed that some of those will be detrimental to the consumer.

Jeff Battersby (15m 6s)
Oh, it goes without saying.

Tom Anderson (15m 9s)
That's what the government does.

Jeff Battersby (15m 15s)
Tom, do you really want to go down this path?

Jeff Battersby (15m 18s)
I mean, I can walk with you step by step.

Tom Anderson (15m 21s)
We'll spin off a new show for that.

Jeff Battersby (15m 23s)
Yeah, yeah, dumb, dumb guys talk, talk about politics.

Tom Anderson (15m 28s)
We'll have your favorite guy Elon come on at that point.

Jeff Battersby (15m 31s)
A beer and a bong and we can move ahead.

Jeff Battersby (15m 44s)  
Right, man, we have, usually we degenerate in a different way than it is during an episode,

Jeff Battersby (15m 50s)
but here we go.

Tom Anderson (15m 51s)
So yeah, I don't know.

Tom Anderson (15m 52s)
We'll have to see how that goes.

Tom Anderson (15m 54s)
That's, that's going to be a long process.

Tom Anderson (15m 56s)
So to keep the Apple lawyers busy earning their pay, which I'm sure is pretty good.

Jeff Battersby (15m 59s)
Yeah, well, right. Well, earning their pay. I would imagine it's in the $500 an hour range. That would be my, that would be my guess. Not bad. Yeah, we'll definitely bring it up. So on to the next thing, and this is kind of an interesting, I don't know,

Tom Anderson (16m 9s)
Yeah, so if anything of note comes out is this thing works through we'll discuss it, but otherwise

Where’s the content, Apple?

Jeff Battersby (16m 24s)
it's curious. We won't say it's interesting. It's curious. So

Jeff Battersby (16m 29s)
one of the things that I mentioned about my experience,

Jeff Battersby (16m 34s)
putting the Apple Vision Pro, I'm not supposed to say the

Jeff Battersby (16m 38s)
putting Apple Vision Pro, I don't know if you read anything or looked at anything about the new style guide. Apple puts out a style guide really good style guide every year. There's not supposed to be a the in front of Apple Vision Pro. It's supposed to be just Apple Vision Pro. So sorry, I used the don't don't Don't shoot me.

Jeff Battersby (16m 57s)
But one of the things is--

Jeff Battersby (16m 59s)
What's interesting about Apple Vision Pro is that there were demos of some really cool, immersive sports when I had that demo.

Jeff Battersby (17m 11s)
There was a soccer game right behind the goal that felt 100% real.

Jeff Battersby (17m 18s)
There was-- as if you were standing right there.

Jeff Battersby (17m 22s)
And then there was a baseball game.

Jeff Battersby (17m 27s)
And as--

Jeff Battersby (17m 29s)
we record this, opening day was just a couple of days ago.

Jeff Battersby (17m 33s)
Technically, it was more than a couple of days ago,

Jeff Battersby (17m 35s)
because they had a couple of games in Korea that technically were opening day games.

Jeff Battersby (17m 39s)
But actual opening day was on Thursday.

Jeff Battersby (17m 43s)
And there was a--

Jeff Battersby (17m 46s)
Jason Snell on Six Colors wrote an article about what he called his MLB for Vision OS strikes out on opening day.

Jeff Battersby (17m 56s)
In other words, the MLB app, which--

Jeff Battersby (17m 59s)
you can watch any and every game you want, I think,

Jeff Battersby (18m 2s)
except for those that are in market.

Jeff Battersby (18m 5s)
So for me, you wouldn't be able to watch the Yankees.

Jeff Battersby (18m 7s)
You wouldn't be able to watch the Orioles if you were inclined to watch baseball.

Jeff Battersby (18m 14s)
But not so immersive.

Jeff Battersby (18m 17s)
It was-- it is not yet up to snuff with what Apple Vision Pro pretends to be able to offer.

Jeff Battersby (18m 30s)
And you actually played a little bit with this, I think,

Jeff Battersby (18m 35s)
did you not, with Apple's--

Jeff Battersby (18m 39s)
sorry, with MLB's app for Apple Vision Pro?

Tom Anderson (18m 43s)
I did take a look at it, yeah, I was on the ground.

Jeff Battersby (18m 44s)
And what is your on-the-ground take?

Jeff Battersby (18m 51s)

Tom Anderson (18m 53s)
So I looked at it not long after I picked it up and they had some footage from the World Series last year I guess it was that they put together and so the way that that worked then is you would have the game up on the screen and then below that you could have of kind of the immersive extra content.

Tom Anderson (19m 13s)
And so I thought that was interesting.

Jeff Battersby (19m 14s)

Tom Anderson (19m 35s)
I went back and looked at it yesterday because I saw you'd added this to the show notes.

Tom Anderson (19m 39s)
And so I went in and looked at it and yeah, basically at this point, I was like, "Okay,

Tom Anderson (19m 43s)
at this point you can just watch a game," which yeah, it did do a little bit of that,

Tom Anderson (19m 47s)
but it's no different than watching something in Apple TV Plus as it is.

Tom Anderson (19m 50s)
It just opens up the window, you can make it, you know, you can go into an immersive scene with it, I think, or maybe that was in the Apple TV app that I watched and did that.

Tom Anderson (20m 1s)
But you can of course, so you can watch the games, you know, they've got, you know, the stats and everything in the app itself, but yeah, nothing amazing, I mean, it's just,

Tom Anderson (20m 11s)
See you in a half.

Jeff Battersby (20m 13s)
Yeah, so it'd be interesting to see.

Jeff Battersby (20m 14s)
So Apple's on Apple TV plus is, um, is every Friday night.

Jeff Battersby (20m 21s)
They have Friday night baseball.

Jeff Battersby (20m 22s)
So you have the ability to do that.

Jeff Battersby (20m 23s)
The I'm guessing you did not check out that last evening when they were, when they were running those games, cause they do every Friday.

Tom Anderson (20m 31s)
I did, yes, did my homework.

Jeff Battersby (20m 32s)
Oh, you did.

Jeff Battersby (20m 33s)
So, oh, Tom, you're, um, so as a comparison MLB app, and

Jeff Battersby (20m 43s)
and then Apple TV plus any difference because you would think Apple would be like, okay, let's get her.

Tom Anderson (20m 50s)
No, I don't think Apple's done much in the Apple TV plus Friday night baseball stuff just yet. It looked just like a normal telecast

Jeff Battersby (20m 55s)

Jeff Battersby (20m 57s)
All right.

Jeff Battersby (20m 58s)
So it's still Apple TV plus.

Tom Anderson (20m 59s)
Strike zone the little probabilities down in the corners of the screens, you know, RBI probability 8%

Jeff Battersby (20m 59s)
So yeah, a little disappointing.

Tom Anderson (21m 5s)
Or whatever they throw up there

Jeff Battersby (21m 5s)
Which they do when you watch the game normally.

Tom Anderson (21m 7s)
Right. Yeah, so it was the exact same experience thus far

Jeff Battersby (21m 7s)
I mean, that's not, that's not any.

Jeff Battersby (21m 13s)
Okay, well, so, and the same has been true of soccer.

Jeff Battersby (21m 17s)
Um, they, you know, Apple's also doing MLS, which I won't subscribe to because I don't like ML.

Jeff Battersby (21m 24s)
I'm still not, it's, it's the second rate soccer of the soccer world.

Jeff Battersby (21m 31s)
Um, so it's, this is one of the places that Apple vision pro one of the places Television Pro has the opportunity to, I think,

Jeff Battersby (21m 43s)
special that it is not able to do yet.

Jeff Battersby (21m 46s)
And you have said that there's not really, other than the demo stuff,

Jeff Battersby (21m 50s)
not really a lot of immersive material available throughout.

Jeff Battersby (21m 55s)
Correct. There, I, you haven't seen anything. I know you don't play games,

Jeff Battersby (22m 1s)
um, but there's, there's not much else going on in that arena as of yet.

Tom Anderson (22m 6s)
No, not yet.

Jeff Battersby (22m 9s)  
• Okay, well, so, then.

Jeff Battersby (22m 14s)
I guess it raises the question, when does that appear?

Jeff Battersby (22m 17s)
And what does it take?

Jeff Battersby (22m 19s)
And I don't know the answer to this question,

Jeff Battersby (22m 21s)
but what does it take to make something like that

Jeff Battersby (22m 26s)
work in a way that you feel like you're in the game?

Jeff Battersby (22m 32s)
It gotta be a lot of cameras,

Jeff Battersby (22m 33s)
and it's gotta be a lot of cameras placed all over stadiums.

Tom Anderson (22m 38s)
Yeah, I think it's a combination of that and I was listening to Alex Lindsay talk about this on MacBreak Weekly, which I haven't listened to that show a lot of late, but when the Vision Pro came out, I listened because, you know, his whole career has been around that type of thing, right?

Tom Anderson (22m 56s)
Like he worked on Star Wars way back in the day and he does a whole lot of video work and audio work and things like that.

Tom Anderson (23m 2s)
So I feel like his take on that is well informed.

Tom Anderson (23m 9s)
There's a lot of cameras, it's a lot of data, right?

Jeff Battersby (23m 13s)
Mm-hmm Bye.

Tom Anderson (23m 15s)
Because maybe they're recording at 8K, so massive amounts of data.

Tom Anderson (23m 21s)
That's not to say that you would stream that raw data, right?

Tom Anderson (23m 24s)
Because, you know, that those bit rates can be knocked down to stream, that's how Netflix does 4K and everything.

Tom Anderson (23m 31s)
But I just think it's just going to take a while, I think, to get there.

Tom Anderson (23m 38s)
I think as broadband, you know, continues to get faster and faster and faster, I mean,

Tom Anderson (23m 45s)
I think what you got a one gig connection there at your place too, right?

Tom Anderson (23m 48s)
Is that right?

Tom Anderson (23m 49s)

Tom Anderson (23m 50s)

Tom Anderson (23m 51s)
And I mean, you know, so it's early.

Tom Anderson (23m 53s)
I do wish that Apple would have had some more stuff day one.

Jeff Battersby (23m 58s)
Seems like that should have been a thing.

Tom Anderson (24m 3s)
And it was kind of weird that when you went into the scenes on the Vision Pro, so that's

Tom Anderson (24m 8s)
a big news, you know, Joshua Tree, Yosemite, whatever, the moon, you know, they had, I don't know, six, six or seven, but then they had two or three that said coming soon.

Jeff Battersby (24m 10s)

Jeff Battersby (24m 18s)
And then the-- they haven't shown it yet.

Tom Anderson (24m 18s)
And everyone was like, why would they even put those up there to say coming soon?

Tom Anderson (24m 22s)
And they're still coming soon.

Tom Anderson (24m 24s)
So it's not that soon, soon, but not that soon.

Tom Anderson (24m 28s)
And so that's been interesting.

Tom Anderson (24m 30s)
And I feel like it was probably get it out the door.

Tom Anderson (24m 37s)
we'll get some more answers.

Tom Anderson (24m 39s)
at the developer conference for Vision OS 2, um, and I think because the other part of that was,

Jeff Battersby (24m 42s)
Yeah, okay.

Tom Anderson (24m 47s)
well, why doesn't Apple have more native Vision OS apps themselves? Like they've got mail and messages and freeform is one, uh, keynote is one, but pages and numbers are not. Um, of course,

Tom Anderson (24m 59s)
Safari is one and photos is, but it's limited. Like you can't even crop a photo. Maybe you can

Tom Anderson (25m 8s)
photo editing. Like it's, it's, it's limited. So it's almost just like a viewer. Um, so it's pretty limited and, and I feel like, okay, that, that could just be because they're focused heads down on, you know, version two, um, to, to maybe kind of kickstart this a little bit more that soccer video they put up that you mentioned. Um, I did watch that like the, the immersive

Tom Anderson (25m 35s)
pieces were good, what got distracting for me is because

Tom Anderson (25m 38s)
it's a highlight reel, there were so many cut scenes, and I think Jason's now mentioned that in his write-up, too. And because, you know, when you're in the "immersive scene,"

Tom Anderson (25m 49s)
you want to look around. And every time I'm trying to look around, it's, you know, doing the scene cuts. And it was a bit of a whiplash effect there. And I was like, "Holy smokes,

Jeff Battersby (25m 55s)
God bless.

Tom Anderson (25m 58s)
I can't keep up with this." And so a couple of times I paused it and just looked around to just kind of get a look because I was wondering, like, the quality of it as you looked around,

Tom Anderson (26m 7s)
you know, where there are a lot of artists.

Tom Anderson (26m 9s)
And I thought it looked pretty good.

Tom Anderson (26m 11s)
You know, I'm not an expert in that.

Tom Anderson (26m 12s)
Somebody that does that for a living,

Tom Anderson (26m 14s)
you know, could judge it better.

Tom Anderson (26m 15s)
But, you know, for me, it's just a consumer, I thought.

Jeff Battersby (26m 19s)
Yeah. I mean, I thought it was brilliant. And it's funny because I, you know, in that demo was like, okay, look at this. All right, onto this, you know, it was very, very much a push you through it kind of demo. Um, I, I did not notice that as much as I felt like I was in this scene. So it will be, you know, interesting, interesting to see how that plays out. I really still think, uh, the place that

Jeff Battersby (26m 50s)
this could be amazing is concerts, you know, in other words, pre-recorded content, but you know, Beyonce's got a new album came out yesterday or the day before quite good, by the way. Um, you know, so doing a concert like that, where, you know, you can spin around and you could be with Beyonce on stage, basically watch, see the audience, see what it's like to be in front of, you know, it.

Jeff Battersby (27m 20s)
Tens of thousands of people.

Jeff Battersby (27m 23s)
I feel like that's the kind of thing where immersion has the potential to be really amazing.

Tom Anderson (27m 28s)
Because then you can, you know, it's recorded, you've got time to put it together, right?

Jeff Battersby (27m 33s)
But, you know, what's the next?

Tom Anderson (27m 36s)
I think the live stuff is, is going to be hard, but even with that, like, even if like a step one for live stuff was choose your seat, and just sat there, like, I don't need it to change, like with the action, like that, like the soccer videos, you know, all these different perspectives on the field, behind the goal, on the sideline, in the locker room.

Jeff Battersby (27m 36s)
Recorded, time to put.

Jeff Battersby (27m 46s)
Yeah, that would be amazing

Tom Anderson (27m 58s)
just put me along third base or half court, whatever, and try that.

Tom Anderson (28m 3s)

Jeff Battersby (28m 4s)
Yeah, basketball, it seems like it would be amazing.

Jeff Battersby (28m 7s)
You know, who would have expected something like that right now, say, for March Madness?

Tom Anderson (28m 14s)
Yeah, that would have been good, yeah.

Jeff Battersby (28m 14s)
Yeah, that would have had some real potential, but I think that's too early.

Jeff Battersby (28m 20s)
Maybe next season, something like that, you know, next year.

Jeff Battersby (28m 24s)
But basketball, because the court's small, you've got not that much area to cover.

Jeff Battersby (28m 34s)
That's kind of a cool opportunity where you can, you know, you can look one direction and see what's going on when.

Tom Anderson (28m 39s)
Yeah, that, hockey, any of the indoor arena things, I think, yeah.

Jeff Battersby (28m 40s)
Yeah, I agree.

Jeff Battersby (28m 44s)
So who knows?

Jeff Battersby (28m 45s)
It'd be very interesting to see WrestleMania.

Tom Anderson (28m 46s)
Wrestlemania. It's coming up. So, did you see the Rock is back?

Jeff Battersby (28m 53s)
The Rock is back, Tom.

Tom Anderson (28m 54s)
He's back and he's become the ultimate final boss. That's how he's signing his Twitter posts and stuff. Yeah, he just says final boss and he's come back as a heel and he's raising all kinds of hell and he's cursing and it's almost like the PG era is over and we're

Jeff Battersby (28m 59s)
The ultimate final boss!

Tom Anderson (29m 9s)
into maybe a new attitude era. We're probably tempered in some ways because a lot of the things that happened in the attitude era, there's no way they would fly today. But yeah, it's been interesting and I haven't really been watching a lot of it but I keep up with it on socials and stuff. Well, because I follow some social things. I don't have time to watch three hours of wrestling.

Jeff Battersby (29m 19s)
Right, right, but you sure know a lot for a guy that hasn't been paying attention.

Tom Anderson (29m 32s)
That's a lot. But I used to, yeah, back in the attitude days.

Jeff Battersby (29m 34s)
Yeah it is.

Jeff Battersby (29m 35s)
Half an hour of wrestling for me would be more.

Tom Anderson (29m 39s)
Monday Night Raw was where it was at.

Tom Anderson (29m 44s)
So, of course, Vince McMahon's been kicked out for all the allegedly crazy things he had going on with women and things like that. They're disgusting, if true. But so, yeah, they're,

Jeff Battersby (29m 51s)  
• Mm-hmm, no, really?

Jeff Battersby (29m 54s)

Tom Anderson (29m 57s)
I don't know. I don't know what it means. But anyway.

Jeff Battersby (29m 59s)
Usually that disgusting if true stuff turns out to be true.

Tom Anderson (30m 2s)
Well, not always.

Jeff Battersby (30m 2s)

Tom Anderson (30m 6s)
That guy for the Buffalo Bills, the punter, got it.

Jeff Battersby (30m 9s)
Oh, didn't see that one.

Tom Anderson (30m 9s)
He was accused of all of that stuff, got kicked out of the league, and then there's like,

Tom Anderson (30m 12s)
"Yeah, there's nothing there."

Tom Anderson (30m 13s)
I was like, "Oh good, good."

Jeff Battersby (30m 13s)
Oh, great, does he get to come back?

Tom Anderson (30m 16s)
He is.

Jeff Battersby (30m 16s)
I don't know, good for him.

Tom Anderson (30m 17s)

Tom Anderson (30m 18s)
Not to them, but somewhere else, I think.

Tom Anderson (30m 19s)
But anyhow, went down the rabbit hole there.

Jeff Battersby (30m 20s)
All right.

Tom Anderson (30m 21s)
So yeah, we'll see what happens with that stuff.

Jeff Battersby (30m 22s)
Yeah, we didn't.

Tom Anderson (30m 23s)
I think the developer conference will be a big, big tell, I think.

Jeff Battersby (30m 28s)
Yeah, yeah, so, and Apple has announced it.

Tom Anderson (30m 31s)
They did announce the dates.

Tom Anderson (30m 32s)
We didn't even talk about that.

Jeff Battersby (30m 33s)
No, no, I didn't do that.

WWDC June 10-14

Jeff Battersby (30m 35s)
Because there's no notes about what the actual dates are in our notes.

Tom Anderson (30m 37s)
June 10th.

Jeff Battersby (30m 38s)
June 10th.

Tom Anderson (30m 39s)
Through the 14th.

Jeff Battersby (30m 41s)
And that's always pretty interesting.

Jeff Battersby (30m 43s)
It's, you know, that has kind of taken over where Macworld Expo used to be.

Jeff Battersby (30m 48s)
WWDC is the new.

Jeff Battersby (30m 52s)
A lot of people complaining that it's still all virtual,

Jeff Battersby (30m 54s)
you know, um, which, you know, nice thing.

Tom Anderson (30m 55s)
right? Which they do have people there for that event on the on the first day, but it's not

Jeff Battersby (31m 1s)

Tom Anderson (31m 3s)
the presentations are recorded, which sorry, I don't mind.

Jeff Battersby (31m 5s)

Jeff Battersby (31m 6s)
Which, you know, I guess it's sometimes the, the, the joy of an actual in-class experiences is worthwhile, but yeah.

Tom Anderson (31m 16s)
Yeah. And you saw the Vision Pro, or not the Vision Pro, Vision OS 2, possibly gaining Apple Pencil support. We talked about that earlier. Yeah, you are. That's why you're on this show. You got to lift us up somehow. Pretty good once your seizing stops. Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (31m 23s)
I did. Yeah, so I'm smart. I'm a genius. I, so yeah, otherwise I'm dragging it down. There's no question about that. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, it's so on the horizon, not too much information, uh, other than, hey, guess what's

Tom Anderson (31m 46s)

Tom Anderson (31m 50s)
We should do a live show

Jeff Battersby (31m 53s)
You think that would be kind of fun?

Tom Anderson (31m 53s)
For the developer conference like afterwards do like a recap we can get on zoom invite people to drop in right

Jeff Battersby (31m 59s)
That'd be fun.

Tom Anderson (31m 59s)
random threads people and

Jeff Battersby (32m 2s)


Jeff Battersby (32m 4s)
All right, Tom, again, here we are.

Jeff Battersby (32m 7s)
We've burned another half an hour of your day.

Jeff Battersby (32m 10s)
Hopefully, you know, your squats and your heavy lifting have done you good and you can now kick us to the curb.

Jeff Battersby (32m 17s)
So that's it, Tom, we're finished.

Jeff Battersby (32m 20s)
Anything you'd like to say before we close?

Tom Anderson (32m 24s)
No, that is all other than thanks for being here.

Tom Anderson (32m 27s)
We appreciate you hanging out with us every couple of weeks.

Tom Anderson (32m 30s)
And other than that, enjoy the rest of your day and the rest of your night.

Tom Anderson (32m 34s)
We'll see you next time.

Outro Music (32m 35s)
I don't wanna know about your imperfections, dude Prefer to leave you on a pedestal so I'll improve 'Cause if I'm finding out you know more than I'm just like you That gon' smash my whole world Lost in illusion Drowning myself up in the sauce Put my glasses on backward and rewind my watch 'Cause I'm a-

Jeff Battersby (32m 35s)
See ya.

Listener Follow Up
DOJ v Apple
Where’s the content, Apple?
WWDC June 10-14