Tom Anderson (00:07)
This is Basic AF episode 89. Show notes for this episode can be found at basicafshow.com. Hi, everybody. Tom Anderson here. Glad you could join us. It's our big WWDC 2026 recap show. We've got a packed room, Jeff Battersby, a packed virtual studio. Thank God you're not all here in the closet, but we've got the quad box in effect. So looks great.

Jeff Battersby (00:25)
Mm.

Yes, looks great. Looks great. And ⁓

we will l let's post this right up front too. You can subscribe to us now, and by subscribe I mean you can make it so Tom and I aren't the only ones paying three dollars a month to ourselves to to support the show. ⁓ you know, we as you note, we have zero advertising and you're welcome to, you know, post up and give us a couple bucks if you want to. which

Tom Anderson (00:58)
I like it though.

Keeps us honest.

Jeff Battersby (01:03)
Yeah. I know. Yeah, w we're happy to keep on doing this 'cause we love doing what we do. But you know, if you wanna if you wanna subsidize the ⁓ the few dollars a month that it costs us to host this, go ahead. We'll be happy to do that. You can do it on the basic AF show website. There's a link somewhere there that'll let you let you do that. Hey, okay.

Tom Anderson (01:10)
We do.

Alright. All right, we have

two esteemed guests joining us, both returning guests, so they actually like us a little bit. Yeah, I don't have it. ⁓ so welcome back, Riley Hill.

Jeff Battersby (01:31)
Yeah. Nice n nice to have some esteem here somewhere. Neither do I.

Riley Hill (01:36)
Ha ha ha.

Joe Moyer (01:37)
Ha

ha

Riley Hill (01:42)
Hello, hello, happy to be back.

Tom Anderson (01:44)
Yeah, good see you again. And Joe Moyer.

Jeff Battersby (01:45)
And

Joe Moyer (01:48)
Hey, thanks for having me back. I'm I'm glad I'm glad I'm still allowed around here. That's good news. Yeah, good, good. Thanks for having us.

Jeff Battersby (01:50)
Woohoo!

Tom Anderson (01:53)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (01:53)
Yeah. No, we d we we remember. Remember both of you. And we're

Tom Anderson (01:57)
That's right.

Jeff Battersby (01:59)
yeah, no, it's it's a good thing. And ⁓ you know, Riley, as you may recall, is a ⁓ is a programmer, so he'll bring that genius here plus, you know, iPad genius. 'cause that's his daily. And Joe Moyer brings the cool and calm.

Joe Moyer (02:16)
That's

Riley Hill (02:17)
Hehehehe.

Joe Moyer (02:17)
right.

Here to keep everybody chill, guys. Everybody chill.

Tom Anderson (02:18)
Good mix. And I think Riley has already put the beta on one of

Jeff Battersby (02:20)
Right. We've got to all meditate for a few minutes.

Tom Anderson (02:23)
his devices. So we'll we'll we'll ask him about that. Yeah. All right. Both. Good. Two devices.

Jeff Battersby (02:24)
Have you really that's right, you get developer access. Cool. All right. Wow. The bold and the beautiful.

Joe Moyer (02:25)
Ha ha.

Riley Hill (02:27)
Two devices, yep. Yes, sir.

Joe Moyer (02:31)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (02:33)
Right.

Riley Hill (02:36)
Yeah, the ⁓ requirements, which I'm sure we'll get into, made it so I was like, you know what, think I need to move beyond my normal SES device to make sure I can test this whole thing.

Jeff Battersby (02:47)
All right. Cool. Happy to hear about it. So yeah, so we had WWDC today and I didn I said before we started recording, the theme of WWW W W I can't stop saying it. W W D C ⁓ is yeah, we're working on it. I'm working on it. Remember my brain only does works half now. It's I'm no longer and it

Tom Anderson (02:47)
I like it. Yep.

Well, Elmer Fudd, spit it out there.

Well, it's questionable

if it did before.

Jeff Battersby (03:14)
Right. So now

it so half of what it was is probably ten percent ⁓ of anybody else's normal brain. But i we ⁓ the theme seemed to be today repentance on the part of ⁓ Apple. Without actually saying that they were sorry or repentant. Most of what we saw today, ⁓ with rare exception, ⁓ was AI related. ⁓ and the theme of the show seemed to be, hey, check this out. It actually works on a device.

Riley Hill (03:15)
.

Tom Anderson (03:19)
Ha ha ha.

Jeff Battersby (03:44)
As opposed to ⁓ as opposed to the ⁓ you know glaring marketing ⁓ madness that ⁓ that it was when we first heard that we're gonna have some upgrades to ⁓ to AI. ⁓ so it and I will say it seems to work. We'll see. We shall see. Google has ⁓ sorry, Apple has married Google for this, ⁓ still maintaining privacy, which is a good

a good thing that makes me happy. as happy as I'll ever be when it comes to AI. And Tom Tom just about fell off his chair. ⁓ but ⁓ it's yeah, it's a it it seemed ⁓ in the live demos that we actually didn't get to see that were still recorded by the way. So they were live recorded demos.

⁓ everything seems to be ⁓ working nicely. There are a couple of other things that are kind of interesting, which we'll talk about, but the big thing was Apple telling us all that crap we said what that wasn't gonna work that what it was gonna work before really is gonna work this time. So ⁓ that seems to be the theme of the show. And I will say kind of interesting, and we'll just pass this really quickly. ⁓ this is ⁓ Tim Cook's last ⁓ WWDC keynote, you know, heading it up.

And he did say goodbye at the very end of it, kind of a sweet goodbye. ⁓ I was surprised though that he did not introduce the ⁓ the new CEO and that that guy didn't take this over. So that was kinda interesting to me anyway.

Riley Hill (05:23)
Apparently he was too busy making the rounds the night before. He was just shaking hands with everyone. Yeah, he's just, yeah, lot of that going around on social media.

Joe Moyer (05:28)
Yeah. Taking photos with everybody, yeah, yeah.

Tom Anderson (05:29)
Man of the people.

Jeff Battersby (05:30)
⁓ really?

Apple's Mundami. Got it.

Joe Moyer (05:37)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (05:38)
Great.

Jeff Battersby (05:39)
⁓

I knew Tom Tom was gonna be happy about that. That's why I said it. I just I just, you know, throw a little salt wherever I can.

Tom Anderson (05:43)
yeah. Yeah.

Jeff's wearing his Hot Guys for Zoron t-shirt.

Riley Hill (05:51)
Hehehehehe

Jeff Battersby (05:51)
Hey, it it is a it is

Joe Moyer (05:52)
It looks looks good on you, Jeff. You're rocking it.

Jeff Battersby (05:56)
a good look, right?

Tom Anderson (05:57)
Maybe we should move recording to evenings going forward. I'm much sharper during this hour than I am at ten in the morning or eleven.

Joe Moyer (05:57)
Mm-hmm.

Ha ha ha.

Jeff Battersby (06:01)
Ha ⁓

Riley Hill (06:01)
Hahaha.

Tom Anderson (06:06)
So they broke broke

this thing down into kind of what three three sections we could say, right? So we did a of course Jeff alluded to the the AI stuff with Siri AI. We're gonna definitely gonna talk about that. ⁓ and they talked about ⁓ some of the performance improvements that they were really focused on. ⁓

With this update and you know, that's something we've been kinda wanting for a long time is that that snow leopard update, right? So for those of you who are a little newer to the to the Apple stuff, you know, back in the day there was a leopard version of Mac OS ten that was released. ⁓ had some issues. Remember that, Jeff? Like it would wipe home folders and stuff. Yeah, that was good. It was real good. ⁓ and so

Jeff Battersby (06:57)
Yeah, it was good time.

Joe Moyer (06:59)
Just

Tom Anderson (07:03)
They followed that up. That was version ten point five. They followed that up with ten point six, which was Snow Leopard, and I believe they actually had a slide that said no new features for that one.

Jeff Battersby (07:08)
Yes.

Yeah. And and you know what, that's a thing that Apple used to do for a while is they would do they would release some major update that changed the look and feel of the operating system and probably added new features, did things like that. And then the year following you would get an update that fixed all the stuff that they broke. You know, that's really what it amounted to. But it it it streamlined what wasn't working in older versions, you know, in the previous or preceding version of the operating system.

And ⁓ that kinda seems like what we're seeing now with the with the next version of this. Yeah. I I didn't even think about that till you just said it this minute, but that's a hundred percent accurate.

Tom Anderson (07:47)
This right.

Yeah. And so they've got that. And then the kind of the third pillar they touched on was trust and safety, I believe is how they coined that. ⁓ with some ⁓ looks like updated and better parental controls and screen time settings and things like that.

Jeff Battersby (08:12)
Yeah. And they used a term which we'll talk about too, kinda drove me nuts. ⁓ digital journey, your ta child's digital journey. ⁓ which seems like a euphemism to me that I don't like very much.

Tom Anderson (08:27)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (08:29)
So yes, those were the those were the areas I would say the most time, you know, we spent probably fifteen to twenty minutes on the you know, what's under the hood, another twenty minutes on on you know, child safety and parents being able to keep their kids off of ⁓ off of the device ⁓ for hours and hours and hours. ⁓ but the vast majority of what they talked about today had to do with Apple intelligence and how it's gonna work.

this time. So that was a a good thirty plus minutes of of the keynote was devoted to n just showing us that this stuff that we said was gonna work last time is gonna work this time.

Tom Anderson (09:11)
Yeah. And and this was short. Like this was sixty five, seventy minutes maybe, like it wasn't very long. ⁓ Joe, Riley, first impressions of ⁓ what they announced today and then we can dig into some of the specifics, but overall, ⁓ what did you guys think? Riley, you want to go first?

Jeff Battersby (09:17)
Yeah. Yeah. No.

Riley Hill (09:32)
Sure. Well, as probably maybe the only one here without kids, that whole trust and safety section was just a snoozer. but, but I respect what they're doing, you know, I mean, that's I get it. I hear from people with kids all the time about ⁓ how lackluster and broken the parental controls are. So I'm glad they seem to hopefully be taking that seriously now ⁓ and making some big improvements that hopefully

Jeff Battersby (09:41)
No.

Joe Moyer (09:42)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (10:02)
work, fingers crossed. ⁓ But other than that, ⁓ overall, you know, I don't know how I feel about the new format. You know, I kind of liked the OS sections, but I get this year that it doesn't seem like there was, there wasn't enough platform specific stuff in any platform to do that. So I mean, get why they did it this way, but I missed the normal way. I hope they get back to it next year, but. ⁓

This was interesting ⁓ presentation wise, I'd say.

Tom Anderson (10:37)
Yeah. Joe?

Joe Moyer (10:39)
Yeah, my my first takeaway at the end was basically, ⁓ they're gonna let us make liquid glass either completely clear, fully tinted, and AI, right? Like it was just we fixed that part of liquid glass, you can stop emailing Tim. ⁓ he's not gonna be getting him anymore anyway. But you know, I I I liked actually the way they set it up in the beginning. They focused the three three big kind of buckets, platform improvements, trust and safety, Apple intelligence in Siri. ⁓

Jeff Battersby (10:55)
Ha ha ha ha.

Tom Anderson (10:56)
Yeah.

Joe Moyer (11:10)
You're right. There wasn't anything that was really like a wow, but it really was like a snow leopard. You know, they they had some fun with the ⁓ the the new Mac OS name, ⁓ which was was kind of what you would expect from the beginning of of one of these keynotes. But yeah, I mean I thought the talk of responsiveness was good. I've got an iPhone fifteen pro, which is kind of chugging along. So I'm curious if there'll be any improvements because liquid glass is my biggest challenge with it is it does kind of drag my phone a little bit. ⁓

trust and safety. I've got two young kids and I feel like the tide's turning a little bit around technology with kids. ⁓ you know, my kids use iPads there. My daughter uses a computer a little bit at school. ⁓ but we have friends who are kind of shifting to be more

I won't say anti-technology, but very leery of how much screen time their kids are getting. So I think it made a lot of sense for Apple to get in front of it. Digital journey. Well, that's sort of Apple's way of saying we're not meta, you know, we're we're looking at this in a more thoughtful way. Whether you think they're doing anything differently or not, I guess is is to be sort of determined. But ⁓ yeah, I thought the the additions to like screen time and things like that to help the kids out and help the parents out looked really promising. So ⁓

In the AI pieces, you know, Siri AI looks like it's going to be I don't know if I should say this out loud, but it looks like it might actually be useful. B you know, you could cut that out if you want, if you're worried about me jinxing this. But I'm hopeful. Right, right.

Jeff Battersby (12:36)
Ha ha ha.

No no no.

I'm Yeah, I just knocked on wood. We're o we're okay. We we saved it.

Yeah, it's ⁓ it it does ⁓ so I mean when they pr announced this previously, that was that was the promise, right? We'll be able to use all the information we have about you privately to be able to do special things. and I will say that ⁓ you know, as we all know, that never came about. Talked about a lot, but it was all you know, pie in the sky, foo foo. We could do this because we

You're really good at editing video. ⁓ and this this does look like it may actually work. And I do like a lot of things about what it is that that Apple hopes to do with this. ⁓ it it looks it looks interesting. ⁓ there a bunch of new apps that this is supposed to work with in special ways.

Three new tools in photos. ⁓ Safari is able now to group tabs by topic, which ⁓ you know, that's kinda interesting. Passwords, that's the only one I'm a little skeeved about. ⁓ just because Tom's laughing at me again. Or he's smiling. No, it's not a that's a laugh, Tom. ⁓ you know, I I don't know how I feel about, you know, the password app and this is one of the features of it. Going out and ⁓

Tom Anderson (14:02)
Smiling, Jeff. Smiling.

Joe Moyer (14:05)
Ha ha ha.

Jeff Battersby (14:14)
And ⁓ all the bad passwords or reuse passwords that I have, going out and change those for me. Just I do use the password apps, you know, algorithm to create whatever passwords it is, but given it, you know, yeah, sure. Yeah, you go out there, go change that password for me. I'm gonna use the bathroom. I'll be back.

Tom Anderson (14:35)
Yeah, I'm curious to see what sites it works for

because they said with you know, can do it with supported sites. Something like wonder which which ones and types and things like that.

Jeff Battersby (14:41)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Moyer (14:41)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (14:46)
Yeah. So anyway, that's ⁓ that's interesting and we'll see. there are a couple other things writing wise, you know, I I am I I don't know about Riley or Joe, but I am the least inclined of between Tom and me to use AI. I have used it for some things, but I'm I'm disinclined to use it. And I'm a writer, have been a writer for a long time and ⁓ you know, I'm not

using AI to write anything that I write. ⁓ even if it's, hey, ⁓ you know, I'm gonna run out to the grocery store. I ⁓ I I don't I don't use that. You know, I just I won't. ⁓ some of the things they showed today, particularly as it relates to messages and mail, ⁓ is a you know complete emails created ⁓ based on some information that you're giving, you know, ⁓ offering up a whole

Joe Moyer (15:37)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Battersby (15:41)
slew of things. One of the demo items, which, you know, I I'll admit was cool to see was, you know, for the Br the Brazil Soccer Game, the opening game of the World Cup that's coming up, putting together menus from both countries that that they're playing with and then ⁓ you know, sending all that information out to the soccer crew to let them know that this is what we're gonna do. And if you guys want to come over, we'll do it. And finding, you know, from your email a cookie recipe. I mean there's a lot of stuff in there that's really interesting. ⁓ but

having your phone generate all that stuff just seems janky to me. There's something about it that just I don't know. I'll I'll say it. It makes my testes shrink.

Joe Moyer (16:16)
Yeah.

There you go. All right.

Jeff Battersby (16:26)
Okay. Yeah. What

Tom Anderson (16:28)
Okay.

Jeff Battersby (16:30)
are we gonna get knocked out? Sorry, Tom.

Tom Anderson (16:34)
Anything else you'd like to tell us, Jeff?

Jeff Battersby (16:35)
No, there's nothing that I need need to say. Yeah, yeah. Here we are. All four of us and ⁓

Tom Anderson (16:38)
And we just went back to that ten percent brain activity. So ⁓

Joe Moyer (16:40)
The circle of trust. Well, the r square of trust.

Riley Hill (16:42)
Hahaha

Joe Moyer (16:45)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff, I thought about

you when they were talking about the, you know, not only will the new AI Siri AI write for you, but it will write based on your tone. And it will write based on the tone I think specifically of the person you're writing to. ⁓ which I I don't plan to use. I like to write and then kind of play with AI on the back end. ⁓ but definitely thought of you 'cause I know your feelings about you know, generative I. Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (17:12)
Yeah, no, it's it it makes me uncomfortable. I I that's not

you know, when I when I said what I just said in whispers, ⁓ it really does make me feel that way. You know, it it's it ⁓ there are things about it that I'm uncomfortable with and that is that's a piece of it. You know, I'm not saying the AIs are gonna run wild and you know, send emails from me. ⁓ but yeah, change all my passwords and then hold them hold hold me hold me hostage. There we go.

Joe Moyer (17:21)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (17:33)
Take your passwords and stuff.

And right for you. Yeah. You'll be locked out.

Joe Moyer (17:41)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (17:43)
So you know.

Tom Anderson (17:43)
Riley, I I don't think we've had a chance to to talk to you about this in in much detail. What on the AI side of things, where are you at at this point with with using it, not using it, in between, some things, no things? What are your feelings on it these days?

Riley Hill (17:52)
Mm-hmm.

I struggle a little bit personally just because from a YouTube perspective, I struggle to figure out where that goes. Because that's kind of supposed to be a creative type of thing for me. I think some people are using it, but I don't want to use it to create thumbnails like that. Or even when I ask it to generate a script, I usually just ignore it. ⁓

Haven't

haven't found much use there as far as writing. ⁓ For my site, ⁓ pretty much limited to proofreading. I do use a combination of writing tools and Claude for that. ⁓ And then at work. You know our company is at this. ⁓ Point where think a number of companies currently are and probably re evaluating of like use AI or get out.

type of thing. Like they don't say that, but that's basically what they're saying. So we are encouraged to use AI and literally everything, know, email, calendar, know, teams, just every everywhere. ⁓ So, you know, I'm, I want to fast forward to the point where we get to being able to run local models on, you know, powerful and competent local models on consumer level hardware, where we have a little bit more control. That's

where I think AI is really going to sing, but we're not there yet.

Jeff Battersby (19:34)
So that's interesting. You're saying that that your company is not explicitly but tacitly saying that that you better be using this, otherwise see a pal.

Riley Hill (19:44)
Yeah,

don't want I mean there's in In a lot of fields, I think that you don't want to look like I guess you're beat quote-unquote behind I think that's most of it like you don't want a client to come in and being like you guys aren't Using this like why would I work with you if you guys aren't even using the latest stuff type of thing I think that's where they're coming from and Sure, you know, whatever You're gonna pay for it. That's fine, you know

Jeff Battersby (19:56)
Mm-hmm.

Tom Anderson (19:57)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Battersby (20:06)
Gotcha.

Tom Anderson (20:12)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (20:14)
But yeah.

Tom Anderson (20:15)
Yeah, and I think we're just we're still i in the let's see the early days. Like it's obviously if you go back, it's progressed a lot, but but at the same time it's still not, you know, things haven't settled in by any stretch because you see, you know, some p some places encourage it so much they'll actually have token leaderboards. You know, it's like, well, all that does is show you send stuff. It doesn't mean it's anything good. It's just performative. It doesn't you know, who knows? And then

Jeff Battersby (20:21)
Yes.

Riley Hill (20:36)
Mm-hmm.

Tom Anderson (20:44)
Other companies are starting to see, ooh, the token cost is getting to be as much as ⁓ salary. It's like, yeah, how about that? And it and at some point, I suspect, I could be wrong, but I suspect that the low cost plans, the twenty dollar a month plans with the, you know, things you can do, like Claude obviously has usage limits, I think, are a little more restrictive than some of the others, but just until you run out of tokens, and then you have to wait.

Joe Moyer (20:52)
Hm. Yeah.

Riley Hill (21:05)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (21:14)
But I think we're going to start to see those prices go up because they are completely subsidizing this to get us all hooked. First hits free kids, take all you want. and then that is going to have to be adjusted and it's yet to be determined if these companies will ever make money. I think they're burning a ton of it right now. so we'll just have to wait and see. But ⁓ so Apple

Joe Moyer (21:23)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (21:23)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Moyer (21:35)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tom Anderson (21:43)
As we talked a little bit about as kind of pegged Google as the partner here. using the Gemini stuff. Now, apparently they made it clear that it's not running Gemini like true Gemini. It's using the Gemini models they've built on top of it. ⁓ so I think that's good. Jeff mentioned, you know, the privacy aspect is still in place. ⁓ and it does look like they have tightened up kind of the system requirements for some of the versions,

Jeff Battersby (21:47)
Uh-huh.

Tom Anderson (22:13)
Hardware wise. Like Apple's always done, you know, traditionally, at least over the last fifteen years or so, you know, a very good job of making sure your device, if it's three, four, five years old, will get the most recent ⁓ update. But they've kinda cut that short a little bit on on some of these. ⁓ Riley, how's the iPad look?

Riley Hill (22:37)
You know, it's not as bad as I thought initially. I was actually just going through this before we got on. The big one is the 2018 iPad Pro got cut this year. And that iPad has been, that's kind of a legendary iPad for me. That was the first, you know, face ID, all screen iPad that's been hanging in there for a while. But other than that, it's really just been the tail end of every.

The last one on the 26 release, all of those got cut. So like the iPad mini fifth generation, iPad eighth generation, and then like the iPad Air fourth generation, I think were the others that got cut. So.

Tom Anderson (23:16)
Okay.

Yeah, and the ⁓ the phones, I think there's it's still a pretty lengthy list of phones that are supported ⁓ for iOS twenty seven, but then the the list shrinks dramatically, I think, when you start to look at like the Apple intelligence features that you can get. ⁓ and apparently there's like a more powerful local model ⁓ constricts the list even more. ⁓ so that's a thing. ⁓

Jeff Battersby (23:33)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Moyer (23:39)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (23:46)
Watch OS twenty seven really narrowed the list down. ⁓ it was like Ultra Two, three, Sir SE three, series ten and eleven. That's it. So

Riley Hill (23:58)
N- N-

Joe Moyer (23:58)
Yeah, they're tightening that up a lot.

Riley Hill (24:01)
9 to 5 Mac was saying, I'm reading this too, ⁓ apparently omitting the Series 9 is a mistake. So apparently the Series 9 will be supported, hasn't been updated yet, but they were told that that was a mistake. But yeah, watchOS, it looks like, got decimated. You know, with the available models, which is kind of crazy.

Tom Anderson (24:18)
Yeah. Right.

Yeah, 'cause like I've I was planning to upgrade anyway 'cause I've got the Ultra One and the battery's starting to get a little a little weak and ⁓ so I'm hoping that the Ultra Four is you know, what I want. But ⁓

Mac OS is they they told us this last year that the Intel systems were going to drop off. And they did. ⁓ so if you've got Apple silicon, you're in good shape. Again, though it depending on some of those local models, your ability to run those or not will depend on like if you've got an M3 chip or higher for some of those I saw looking through. So it's it's a little more complicated than it traditionally has been, I think, with the operating systems, because it's like, yes, you can run it, but

Riley Hill (24:38)
And then back, yeah.

Tom Anderson (25:08)
⁓ not that that hasn't happened before for some things, like some of the features here and there would be like, well, yes, it'll you can run it, you can install the operating system, say, on an order phone, but you don't get X, Y, and Z necessarily. So So just read the fine print.

Jeff Battersby (25:21)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (25:24)
I don't know why I'm tickled that the iPhone Air is one of the phones that gets everything. Just because it was so maligned, I guess, by so many for daring not to have the same battery life as the Pro Max. something about that just makes me chuckle. I don't know.

Tom Anderson (25:33)
Ha ha ha.

Joe Moyer (25:33)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (25:43)
And I will tell you I've got a friend ⁓ who has the air. ⁓ shout out to Stacy Frennis. and i she loves that thing. Absolutely loves it. ⁓ her husband Abe got ⁓ ended up picking up a pro, I think got a pro Max, but she she thinks that thing's amazing. So, you know, it's it's got its place. There definitely is something to be said for that, ⁓ as you said.

Riley Hill (25:54)
great fun.

Joe Moyer (25:54)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (26:12)
Riley as maligned as it was or as maligned as you know, it's like, ⁓ things sucks. ⁓ you know. Doesn't suck for everybody.

Riley Hill (26:20)
Mm hmm.

Joe Moyer (26:21)
No.

Tom Anderson (26:24)
Yeah, so iOS 27, iPhone SE second generation, iPhone 11 and up, basically.

Joe Moyer (26:24)
So

Riley Hill (26:32)
Didn't they say they weren't cutting any iPhones from last year? I miss?

Joe Moyer (26:36)
Thought they did say something like that, but then I thought they contradicted it. So ⁓ I only had a chance to watch through it once. So I was a little confused by that. Maybe it's certain features are getting cut. ⁓ I know the more powerful on device model you need the the iPhone Air of the seventeen and then iPad with M4 later and three Mac both have to have a minimum of a hundred and twenty eight gigs of memory, so ⁓ yeah.

Tom Anderson (26:46)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (26:49)
I was the latest.

I mean, my conspiracy theory was just

that because they kept the iPhones and the iPhone, despite Apple failing and AI has been selling like crazy. Funny. It's almost like customers don't care what AI on their phones. ⁓ But like, you know, I just felt like, they're cutting some iPads and Apple watches, these devices with kind of long, you know, refresh cycles, maybe trying to nudge some nudge some people some upgrades on them, product lines that might need it. I don't.

Tom Anderson (27:14)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (27:31)
That's my theory.

Joe Moyer (27:31)
Yeah, they need the

silicon elsewhere, right? They need those memory chips. ⁓ yeah. I mean I just ⁓ my wife uses Siri all the time and it mostly to play music and it works for her. ⁓ when I want to use AI on my Apple, on my iPhone or my devices, I just open Claude. Like that's so I'll have to see about breaking that habit once Siri AI is here because I've sort of gotten to the habit of not using it. Just 'cause it really wasn't useful for me.

Riley Hill (27:34)
Exactly.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (27:56)
Yeah, it hasn't been useful really for anything for maybe since the second version of it.

Joe Moyer (27:59)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (28:04)
Hey, it could set reminders like no one's business. Come on now. And timers, woo.

Jeff Battersby (28:07)
Yeah, okay. Right.

Joe Moyer (28:11)
Yeah, it's f that's true. They're very good at that.

Jeff Battersby (28:13)
I'm sorry, I don't have a timer running right now.

Riley Hill (28:15)
You

Tom Anderson (28:17)
So just to give you a quick e ⁓ example of what may be cut depending on which model you have. ⁓ so one of the things they announced is that you'll be able to customize how Siri sounds. So you'll be able to pick a a voice and then kind of set the speed, tone, accent, that kind of thing. And so when looking at the iOS webpage for version twenty seven, the preview page, there is a three next to that particular feature that they

Jeff Battersby (28:44)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Moyer (28:46)
wow.

Jeff Battersby (28:47)
Three.

Tom Anderson (28:47)
⁓

show. And so when you scroll down to the bottom into the fine print, available on iPhone 17 Pro, 17 Pro Max, iPhone Air, iPad models with M4 and later, and at least 12 gigabytes of unified memory, Mac models with M3 and later and at least 12 gig of unified memory, and Apple Vision Pro, only the M5 model. So it's gonna be things like that, like just you know, certain features here and there. So again, just read through the fine print.

Riley Hill (29:12)
huh.

Tom Anderson (29:17)
If you're concerned about any of that.

Joe Moyer (29:18)
What did you think of the voices

of the the new Siri voice?

Jeff Battersby (29:22)
I don't care. I th you know.

Tom Anderson (29:25)
Yeah, not too much. I mean I like that

Joe Moyer (29:25)
I thought it got better when they sped it up.

Riley Hill (29:25)
Yeah

Tom Anderson (29:28)
when they s yeah, that you could speed it up 'cause I thought that was a little a little better. Mhm. Yeah.

Joe Moyer (29:28)
Yeah. Yeah. That sounded more natural.

Riley Hill (29:34)
My first thought

was the same, Jeff, of like, don't, it doesn't matter. I don't care in this life, just what it sounds like. It's whatever.

Jeff Battersby (29:36)
Yeah. Right.

Tom Anderson (29:39)
Right.

Right. It's

Jeff Battersby (29:41)
Yeah, I'm not having a conversation with it. I'm you know, trying to get it to do something and it usually doesn't even do that. So, you know, that's ⁓ that's ⁓ interesting. So you can you can on the models that you can customize it on. you can customize pitch, speed, tone, and the accent, ⁓ which is ⁓ all you know, kinda interesting.

Tom Anderson (29:51)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (30:09)
By the way, on the front page, Tom, it says customize high series sounds. It then has a four on this one. ⁓ so I'm looking at a different page than you are. Let's go down to what four says. And four says Yeah, same thing. Same the same that yours said. So ⁓ so does not work on my phone, by the way. So I will not I don't have anything to anything to worry about.

Tom Anderson (30:15)
Ooh.

Joe Moyer (30:32)
Mm-hmm.

Tom Anderson (30:36)
You won't spend hours tweaking the voice.

Joe Moyer (30:38)
Ha ha ha.

Jeff Battersby (30:39)
I I probably

wouldn't have spent hours tweaking the voice in the first place. All right. Yeah, yeah. You you guys and my therapist, okay? Never and always. Those are two things you can't say anything about. So yeah, yeah I l love you all as much as I love my

Tom Anderson (30:42)
Never say never, Jeff. I mean it's you know, cold winter night up there in New York, you never know.

Joe Moyer (30:43)
That's true.

Ha ha ha.

Riley Hill (30:49)
you

Joe Moyer (30:57)
Hmm.

Tom Anderson (30:58)
what would you guys like to get into next? We've got a big list of stuff. We're obviously we're gonna cover it all, but

Jeff Battersby (31:03)
Yeah, let me let me ask

this question. So one of the things that showed up in ⁓ in photos was being able to change it is an AI feature that really kind of is another scheeve. where you can change the angle, change what it is that you're looking at. And there's some things about, you know, being able to to do that that I think are interesting. ⁓ but you know

when when you're also using it to remove the ⁓ the hottie that you were going out with on Friday night when you were supposed to be home with your wife. That part I don't I mean you could still do that in any other app. Look at me talking about stuff that I don't do. ⁓ but but i y i I didn't like it when Google when ⁓ you know, the Pixel was able to do that ⁓ I don't a year ago.

⁓ and I get that Apple has to add these kinds of features because it's keeping up with the Joneses, but it is ⁓ it that stuff bothers me a little bit. ⁓ there's there's something about it that makes me I don't know, i you're unless it's obvious that you're changing reality, which I think Tom, you posted a link that says that any time that that's done to one of those photos, there's gonna be a little marker in the photo that says

that it has been i it has been changed using AI. Was that

Tom Anderson (32:33)
Yeah, I think

Google I don't know if Google developed that, came up with it, or if they s signed on board with it, but it's synth ID. And it's supposed to be a hidden watermark if the image has been edited with AI, that would show up somewhere, I guess. It's in the metadata at some place.

Jeff Battersby (32:41)
Okay.

Gotcha.

Yeah, the whole image playground in that particular you know, that particular reframe feature is what it's called. So you can change the angle, you can change all sorts of things. It just seems a as with so much that is AI, part of learning to do the thing right is to, you know, take a bunch of bad photos, write a bunch of bad sentences. You know, those are the those are the ways you get good at, you know, taking photos and and writing sentences.

⁓ so ⁓ you know, part of it for me says you don't get to visualize the world or or work in it a way that you should. But, you know, I'm a bitchy old man, so what can I say?

Joe Moyer (33:35)
You know, I think ⁓ it's it's that what's what is a photo now, right? You know, what what are we taking what are we seeing? What's coming through the other side of the camera? ⁓ I in theory I like some of these ideas. ⁓ the idea of extending the photo is

Riley Hill (33:41)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Moyer (33:53)
It's probably the weirdest to me. ⁓ but I understand like, you know, I understand the desire to. You get a good photo of something you poured you and you wanna, I don't know, maybe not make their head three times too big, so you kinda you kinda pull back on it. ⁓ although you might be able to do that with the reframe feature as well. I you know, I think the reframe feature is the one I think I like the most. ⁓ but I'm curious what it will do to the photo. You know, I I have seen people in my family take

Jeff Battersby (33:56)
Right, right.

Joe Moyer (34:22)
photos of family members who are no longer with us and put them into I I don't even know what app they're using, but it turns them into animations and it is spooky because it's not, you know, they're taking it from one photo and then them it moves and it doesn't look like them anymore. So would be really curious to know how much it changes, you know. ⁓ because I guess if it's changing the angle and not changing the photo, that would not be as difficult. But how how could it not change the photo, right?

Tom Anderson (34:51)
Yeah, I suspect they're going to leverage some of that same technology they've used with the lock screens. You know, you get that kind of that parallax effect on the lock screen. Like if you put a picture up and you turn it and kinda like it's almost like you can see behind the well mine are usually my kids or the dogs or something, but you can see behind whatever like the quote unquote subject is. So I feel like it's it it's the same thing. ⁓ they've done a lot of good stuff in Vision OS in the Photos app with some of that spatial thing ⁓ technology where you can have it kind of

Joe Moyer (34:51)
It's it's sort of a philosophical

Mm-hmm.

Jeff Battersby (34:58)
Yes.

Joe Moyer (34:59)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (35:02)
⁓

Jeff Battersby (35:09)
Yes.

Joe Moyer (35:09)
Right.

Tom Anderson (35:21)
analyze the photo and it gives it almost a lenticular look to it of of sorts. ⁓ and so so pretty cool there. I think

Riley Hill (35:24)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (35:33)
I I think they've they're doing a pretty good job balancing like that 'cause I you don't want it to go too far. Right. And it's like you're not you can take people out, but you can't I'm assuming you can't put people in, which is where it would get real sketchy. ⁓ because then Jeff can put the lady he thought he was going out with, but not. but it would be me and then it'd get really weird. then ⁓ it's so I I I think it's okay.

Joe Moyer (35:49)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Battersby (35:56)
Ha ha ha ⁓

Tom Anderson (36:02)
the cleanup stuff, ⁓ to being able to take things out. I I like that. I mean that's in Photoshop, it's in Lightroom, it's in everything. that you can let this look really nice if I took the utility pole out of the picture. And you just take it out. ⁓

Jeff Battersby (36:08)
I do like some of that. I'm I'm not gonna

Joe Moyer (36:09)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yep. That's like the classic

example, getting rid of the utility pole. Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (36:20)
Yeah, or the utility, the the line.

Tom Anderson (36:20)
Yeah, poor utility poems. But if you got rid of them

you'd miss if you didn't if you really needed them. ⁓ so I I'm okay with it. ⁓ the regenerative stuff, like to fill the image. I think it's just gonna try to extend whatever it has there in the picture in some type of a logical manner. ⁓ so yeah, none of that stuff really bugs me too much.

Joe Moyer (36:24)
True.

Jeff Battersby (36:41)
Everything bugs me too.

Riley Hill (36:43)
I do want to call out the improvements to Image Playground, which I think maybe I was the only one who used in any capacity over the last year. It turns out if you give it a prompt to generate just a ⁓ background of, I don't know, like wavy, just abstract backgrounds, it can sort of get there sometimes. And it was kind of useful for that. would almost.

This is more for blog posts than I would almost always blur it a bit too, but like it could kind of do that. And I like the idea of using it now to generate actual abstract wallpapers, which I feel like I spend a lot of time just looking for on the internet for reasons. I don't know why, just I like to. So if it's good enough to actually do that now, I think the old one was capped at like 1024 by 1024 for the output. So it sounds like you can create bigger images now, which is nice. ⁓

Joe Moyer (37:23)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (37:26)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (37:38)
So that sounds like it might actually. Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (37:38)
And now photo realistic images as

well, which you know, w everything that came out of there was kind of goofy looking. Like if you try to do stuff of you, you know, in the Highlands with your you know, your your knickers on, it was that was yeah.

Riley Hill (37:45)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (37:45)
Yeah. It was

Riley Hill (37:54)
Yeah, it's like what is this? But yeah,

Tom Anderson (37:56)
Ha

ha.

Riley Hill (37:57)
I remember that.

Tom Anderson (37:59)
Yeah, so they're they've obviously upgraded whatever models they're using for image generation, whether it's nano banana or whatever Google's is and so that's some good

Jeff Battersby (38:09)
Well and

I think part of it was they wanted to make sure you knew it wasn't real. I think that's that's part of the previous version is they wanted to make sure you knew you were looking at something that was AI generated, you know, not ⁓ the president dunking on Hochul ho Hochul Hokel, however the hell you pronounce her name. She's my governor and I can't even tell you how to pronounce her name. But you know, th that that whole thing. Not that anybody thinks that that's real.

Joe Moyer (38:15)
Yeah.

Ha.

Jeff Battersby (38:39)
You know what I'm saying? There was I think that's part of the reason A Apple was being very conservative with it previously. Which by the way

Tom Anderson (38:45)
I wonder though if

it's really what it was or if they just couldn't get anything better and they kinda spun it in that direction because they surely don't care now. Because these all look pretty good. Like in terms of realism and everything.

Jeff Battersby (38:49)
well, you know.

Joe Moyer (38:54)
Ha ha.

Jeff Battersby (38:55)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

they do. Yeah, you you may be right, Tom. I may be crazy. But I just kinda lunatic you're looking for.

Riley Hill (39:06)
huh.

Joe Moyer (39:07)
You know, I noticed one of the things

Tom Anderson (39:07)
All right. All right. Billy?

Joe Moyer (39:10)
that I think will actually if if this works the way they want it to, ⁓ you know, they kept talking about how it's the intelligence is gonna be ⁓ more personal and useful, centered around you, right? So we love to be the main character of our own story. So if it actually works, I think it'll be incredibly successful because

while I Jeff, I understand that it might be a little spooky when you ask your phone to set up a play date with your soccer friends and there's food and invites flying around. A lot of people are gonna eat that up. Like and I I can see it being useful, you know. ⁓ I don't want it writing my writing for me, but if it can help me do something a little quicker that is kind of would be just me swiping through apps. And, you know, if it knows enough about me to be helpful and, you know, not creepy, ⁓ we have

Tom Anderson (39:37)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (39:38)
Hehehehehe

Jeff Battersby (39:40)
No,

you're right. Yes, right.

Tom Anderson (39:40)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Moyer (40:00)
Amazon devices in the house still unfortunately and the the upgraded version of that was trying to get more kind of personal. So if you set a timer for a food item it would that's gonna taste great when it you know, stop that. Like you I don't yeah, I don't want you talking about my salmon, right? Like this is just weird. So but I think the centered around you is gonna be, you know, what if it works is gonna be what makes it so successful because people love, you know, their phone is gonna cater to them in a way that it

Tom Anderson (40:12)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (40:12)
Ha.

Joe Moyer (40:29)
it's been a little bit difficult to actually get it to do the things you want to do, especially if you're not if you don't have Claude on your phone or another AI tool. ⁓ you know, I think I think that's where the the promise lies, not in the I'll write your boss a letter and make it sound like it came from you, but more like, I'm gonna know enough about you not to be creepy, but to be helpful.

Jeff Battersby (40:49)
Yeah. No, I and I agree with you, Joe. I I I think that's I also think that's the reason that ⁓ that when this was promised to us, was it two years ago? Or was it last year? I can't even remember anymore. Yeah, it was two years ago. That's what I thought too. ⁓ when this was promised to us two years ago, I I could see the value in that, but I I think the problem that Apple ran into is it's not not easy to to make it

Joe Moyer (41:02)
At least two years ago. Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (41:19)
personal. It's very, very generalized. ⁓ and so r keeping your personal information private and making it so, you know, it can serve a purpose for you, the individual, I think that was a steep challenge that they did not ⁓ you know I don't think they realized quite how steep that challenge was. And it'll be interesting to see if it works. I mean it looked

Joe Moyer (41:41)
They didn't deliver. Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (41:44)
Well, didn't.

Jeff Battersby (41:47)
in those kind of demos today like it did work. You know, it looked like it was kind of reasonable. ⁓ in ways that, you know, two years ago the video you know, the videotape lied. ⁓ the it it this this does look interesting. And I I do see the benefit of that. You know, whether or not I'm gonna use it that much is a fair question. I'm disinclined to use Siri now because half the time it doesn't work. ⁓

Joe Moyer (41:50)
Yeah.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Jeff Battersby (42:18)
So or, you know, I could do that on your phone if I say it to the home pod. If if you if you get your phone I can do that I can do that for you. It's like, okay, great. I don't wanna get my phone. I just wanted to ask you. ⁓

Joe Moyer (42:23)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (42:31)
Well, didn't Google

just announce this this year or a couple of months ago for Android, this whole personal context thing like speaking to it being hard if Google couldn't do it before now. I don't know how Apple thought they were going to, you know.

Jeff Battersby (42:44)
Yeah. Yeah, and maybe who knows, ⁓ maybe they were doing it together. That's the whole thing. You know, you've got one hand scratching the other's back or however that saying goes.

Riley Hill (42:49)
Yeah, could be.

Tom Anderson (42:56)
So Riley, you got the the betas installed. So developer beta. Public beta is due in July. ⁓ I saw you post you got on the wait list for the Siri and you've already been accepted or approved or pushed through the line, I guess we should say. ⁓ I know it's only been a little bit. Have you been able to do anything with it yet?

Joe Moyer (42:57)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (43:13)
Riley special.

Riley Hill (43:16)
just quick.

A couple things I've learned so far. Although it might be, yeah, okay, it's, I don't know, it might be making a liar of me. Siri, okay. First thing, I put it on my test iPad, which has a test Apple ID, which has no iCloud storage left. So the Siri app is yelling at me that I need more iCloud storage, I think, for storing my conversations. So I have a persistent banner in there right now that says my

iCloud storage is full. So that's fun. Which is why I put it on the second iPad, my work iPad, which is going to be fun. So far, I mean, it's kind of going back to what you were saying, Jeff, like I think I may have maybe have been trained just not to use Siri. So I got the Siri and I'm kind of like, what am I supposed to do with this? Like, you know, like I was just a little lost. So I tried to

Jeff Battersby (43:54)
Mm.

Tom Anderson (44:10)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (44:10)
Right.

Joe Moyer (44:11)
Mm.

Riley Hill (44:14)
I tried a couple of requests that were about the same speed that they showed in the demo. ⁓ What did I ask it?

Some things it doesn't know. like I asked, someone was asked, Jesus, okay, this is my home pod. ⁓ Sorry, okay, ⁓ yeah. I asked it if iPadOS got clipboard history, like we got on Mac OS. And I think the first time I asked it, was like, yeah, here's how you use it. Cause it was referencing like the Mac OS spotlight. It thought I was on a Mac. Then I was more specific the next time. And it was like,

Jeff Battersby (44:30)
Play us a song, Riley.

Joe Moyer (44:34)
Ha ha ha.

Riley Hill (44:56)
No. ⁓ And then it gave me like a Wikipedia entry about clipboard history. I don't know. ⁓ It's a little weird. It's working great. On the iPad, it does combine ⁓ kind of combined Spotlight and Siri like it does, I guess, on the Mac. So ⁓ command space brings up Siri. It doesn't bring up Spotlight. There's not two interfaces, ⁓ which is nice. So it's still pretty early. There is a nice animation.

Jeff Battersby (45:03)
So it's working great. Yeah.

Riley Hill (45:26)
can do on iPad where you kind of pull it down from the top, the Siri bubble, ⁓ which is kind of cool. But it's still pretty early. mean, it seems anecdotally to work a little bit better. I'd have to grab my other iPad where I did a better test. But it is, I think it's working tentatively.

Tom Anderson (45:46)
Good. Yeah.

And something they gave us was a standalone Siri app, which had been rumored. And so that will contain Yep.

Jeff Battersby (45:51)
Yeah. Which also stores history, which is one of the things Tom you

Riley Hill (45:51)
Yes.

Joe Moyer (45:52)
Yes.

Jeff Battersby (45:55)
were you were complaining about before.

Riley Hill (45:57)
It has options of like, I think it's one week, 30 days, and forever. Are your options for retaining ⁓ your history? Let's try to pull this up here real quick.

Joe Moyer (46:09)
That's commitment right there. It's

a month or we're till death do us part.

Jeff Battersby (46:14)
Right. Yeah.

Riley Hill (46:15)
Okay, okay,

so it's 30 days, one year, and forever, yes. ⁓

Jeff Battersby (46:16)
Putting putting a ring on it.

Tom Anderson (46:22)
What do you think you'll set that on? Any clue at this point?

Riley Hill (46:24)
It defaults to forever. ⁓ For now, I'll probably keep it there. We'll see how that goes. ⁓ I think as you mentioned, Jeff, I'm noticing like on my M1 iPad Pro with eight gigs of RAM, I don't have the expressive voices. That requires I'm on my M4 iPad Air with 12 gigs and I can do that. ⁓ Obviously a lot faster and smoother on the M4 Air. ⁓

Tom Anderson (46:26)
Okay. That's probably where I'd leave it.

Riley Hill (46:55)
But yeah, I'm anxious to try to figure out ways to actually use this now that it's a competent assistant. So.

Jeff Battersby (47:01)
So for

those of you that are using ⁓ AI on a regular basis, those demos to me seemed really slow. Like, you know, it the thinking time collecting this information, collecting that information, figuring out, you know, what to do. but I don't use AI with any regularity. I use Claude occasionally for, you know, ⁓ sometimes just for fun, sometimes to ask questions.

But mostly not at all. So I don't know, does that comparatively, how how did that seem to you to what you've you know, Tom, you've used pretty much everything ⁓ and are regular on Claude now, I think, and Gemini at work. ⁓ but how does it how does it seem to you speed wise?

Tom Anderson (47:46)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

⁓ the the few that I saw, it looked like it was two or three seconds ⁓ that it was, you know, kind of thinking and then it would, you know, give you some type of an an answer or result. I didn't think it was too bad. ⁓ like if you go into like chat GPT and you're just in like the standard lightweight model or something like that, like those are pretty quick to reply. ⁓ but once you go into the thinking, more thinking type.

Jeff Battersby (48:07)
Okay. All right.

Tom Anderson (48:20)
models right and it's more an advanced type thing. I mean, those can take minutes. You know, depending on what you have them do. Like if you're saying, research this, compare it to that, I mean they can run five, ten, twelve minutes, but different, right? These I think these things on the phone, in particular, like, you know, hey, what's this a picture of? You know, like they showed in the the keynote I think it was, where it was like, it's this, you know, bridge. ⁓ add a stop there when I go to Steve's house or whatever the the demo was. ⁓

Joe Moyer (48:26)
Mm.

Jeff Battersby (48:33)
Okay.

Tom Anderson (48:50)
You know, those are lighter weight, I think, than those types of kind of hardcore or more advanced searches. So I think, you know, it still it it's early. Like I'm sure it'll we'll have to wait and see how it shakes out. Like with third party apps and when once they start to integrate it in, ⁓ you know, it's how much latency's in there, you know, it it's probably too soon to tell. But I I didn't think it was terrible. It did seem a little slow, but again, when you're standing there looking at it, waiting for it to do something.

Jeff Battersby (49:01)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (49:19)
You know, it's like watching the waiting for the pot of water to boil. It just seems to take for you know, days. ⁓ so we'll have to wait and see.

Riley Hill (49:27)
Wouldn't it be funny if they intentionally slowed those down just to just to reassure people?

Joe Moyer (49:34)
Ha ha

Jeff Battersby (49:35)
So that when you get it it's like super zippy?

Joe Moyer (49:37)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (49:38)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (49:39)
wow.

Riley Hill (49:43)
I almost said Claude. Siri, I almost fed my assistant a ⁓ blog post to proofread and the speed was pretty comparable to Claude in terms of how quick it returned. In some cases, it keeps up so far.

Tom Anderson (50:02)
Okay, good. Yeah, something wanted to ask you about, Riley. ⁓ Safari now can build extensions. Did you get a chance to try that? Is that functioning yet?

Riley Hill (50:11)
Yes.

I did. I got it to work once.

Tom Anderson (50:16)
So I should say Siri can build

like a custom extension in Safari is the better way to put that, but

Riley Hill (50:23)
Yeah, I got it to work once and I haven't gotten it to work a second time. I don't know if that's, I'm just chalking that up to beta one. But ⁓ I told it to build an extension that, because we don't have any kind of developer mode in Safari, for whatever reason, on the iPad. I said, start easy, give me a view page source extension. ⁓ And it built it. And I said, make sure I can edit it too. ⁓ And it built it.

Tom Anderson (50:29)
Ship it.

Riley Hill (50:52)
and it seems to work. So I was going to see how much further I could take it, but then I feel like the option disappeared to create a new extension. I don't know if they only let you do one, but.

Tom Anderson (50:52)
Nice.

Was that

Joe Moyer (51:03)
That's it.

Tom Anderson (51:04)
on your test iPad with no iCloud storage? Okay. Yeah. You've hit your usage limit. You'll have to wait four hours 'cause you don't have your iCloud plus plan on there.

Riley Hill (51:07)
Actually, it was so it could be it.

Jeff Battersby (51:12)
Hay ⁓

Joe Moyer (51:15)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (51:16)
You

there's a good chance you're right actually

Tom Anderson (51:18)
⁓

and something else that I'm excited to try is they have added ⁓ shortcut support, like to build shortcuts using Siri.

Joe Moyer (51:32)
Yeah, that sounds fun. They didn't dig into that too deeply, did they? No.

Jeff Battersby (51:35)
No, they

didn't, but they they definitely said that there are gonna be some difference, including I think in the UI for shortcuts. ⁓ so that should be interesting.

Joe Moyer (51:44)
Yeah. That sounds really promising.

Yeah.

Riley Hill (51:48)
I gave that a shot too. ⁓ It... Well, it is beta, so I don't want to... And we don't know what the limits are. I'm sure there are limits on what it can do. I tried to tell it to make a shortcut that I've always wanted of like, I put my iPad on my Magic Keyboard, it turns on windowing, I take it off, it turns off.

Joe Moyer (51:53)
You sound hesitant. I mean it it is beta, right?

Jeff Battersby (51:54)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (51:55)
Ha ha ha.

Riley Hill (52:15)
When doing like there's a short, there's no actions exposed for like connected to magic keyboard to do this yourself. So I told it to build it and it built a shortcut and. It half worked like it detected that I took the iPad off the keyboard, but wouldn't work after that. And I can't. That I can tell like when I go into edit that shortcut, you don't see the actions. You're back in the.

the AI prompt driven interface. So I can't tell what it's doing under the hood.

Tom Anderson (52:49)
Okay, since all vibe coding we'll say. Yeah.

Riley Hill (52:53)
Yeah, exactly. So.

But it looks promising. I was working on one of my shortcuts this morning and just like hating how much how terrible shortcuts is just in general. So. ⁓ With a few more betas, I think this this has a lot of potential.

Tom Anderson (53:06)
Mm-hmm.

Nice. That's exciting. Yeah. Hopefully they they really work on that and push it to do some things. That could I mean, that could open up so many possibilities.

Riley Hill (53:20)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Moyer (53:20)
Yeah.

And I think we all know it's a beta. So like w I think we all are hopeful and realize that if it's not working right now then it it hopefully will be. And maybe there'll be a new iCloud lo you know, price tier for all those tokens we're gonna need. But, you know, the services revenue, guys. We gotta keep that up.

Tom Anderson (53:36)
That's it.

Riley Hill (53:37)
Yeah, yeah.

Tom Anderson (53:41)
iCloud Plus Plus.

Joe Moyer (53:42)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (53:46)
So I have a question about the ⁓ I mean we've talked a long time, ⁓ as they did in the in the keynote about about Syria. I wanna talk about the child safety features briefly. Again, I'm well past that. You know, it's at this point it's gonna be grandchild safety features. ⁓ and I'm disinclined at whatever point in time a grandchild shows up in my life. ⁓ you know, to ha I'd rather be reading a book with a grandchild than futzing around with an iPad. ⁓

What I'm curious about, and I didn't see any indication of this, it seems like this is really something that's ripe for MDM, like a parental ⁓ portal that you go to. And I it still looks like this is one to one on the iPad. Is that what it looks like to you guys?

Riley Hill (54:34)
Yeah, I mean, there's been no indication so far of anything changing, anything looking like an account child, know, ⁓ a manageable account in that way. It's still very much one to one.

Jeff Battersby (54:48)
Yeah. So it it that to me seems like a I mean, you know, any smart kid's gonna be able to figure out what the passcode is and find their way around you know, whatever limitations that you're putting on that device. ⁓ my wife, who's a school teacher, who's retiring, by the way, in couple couple of weeks, hard to believe. Yeah. But i these kids you know, on they're on Chromebooks and they can find their way around every single control.

Riley Hill (55:08)
Nice.

Joe Moyer (55:09)
Hm. Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (55:18)
that that, you know, they put in place. So you got kids, you know, who were supposed to be taking never, Tom gosh, you know what? I did all my homework. I never had to have any homework signed by parents.

Joe Moyer (55:19)
Mm-hmm.

Tom Anderson (55:24)
We would have never done anything like that back in the day, Jeff. No.

Riley Hill (55:26)
Hehehehehe

Joe Moyer (55:28)
No.

Tom Anderson (55:29)
Yeah.

I never went home

from high school and told my mom I was late and I need a note for tomorrow. Because back then that's all you needed was a handwritten note that said, Hey, you know, please excuse him because you know he was late or whatever. Or I was whatever. And so she'd give me notes and I would keep them. So I'd line up three or four. And then at any point that I wanted to skip like the first half of the day.

Riley Hill (55:40)
Hehehehehe

Jeff Battersby (55:40)
Yeah, yeah.

Joe Moyer (55:45)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (55:47)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (55:54)
Nice. Nice.

Joe Moyer (55:57)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (55:59)
ride around with my buddies or whatever, I always had like my get out of jail free car. So yeah, kids would never do stuff like that. No I'd worry about them if they didn't.

Riley Hill (55:59)
Nice.

Jeff Battersby (56:02)
Right.

And right. I this is this

this is all new because of tech. No. ⁓ no, it seems it feels like to me that this is, you know, ⁓ I mean Apple has just it made it so basically you can do MDM through business. I mean th through the business ⁓ accounts without yet having to, you know, go to kanji or any of these other bigger bigger houses. It feels to me like this is the place where this should be living.

Riley Hill (56:09)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (56:33)
You know, even if it's a bunch of individual iPads that the kids are gonna have or phones that the kids are gonna have, that that's the place it needs to go. But who am I? What do I know? Yeah. Right. Some kind of iCloud parental control that for you know, anyway.

Joe Moyer (56:40)
Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, you know, we

Tom Anderson (56:42)
Yeah, could end up in iCloud at some point, right? Just

Joe Moyer (56:46)
That'd be great. Yeah. We

we have the two iPad minis. Well we have one iPad mini because my son got really excited about the water table. And instead of setting the iPad down on the table, he set it on on the water table. So that iPad is no more They're not waterproof, you know, no no waterproof rating, just in case you're wondering. ⁓ but my kids are the age where they're not they're not looking necessarily to break the rules, but

Tom Anderson (57:03)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (57:06)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (57:06)
Hmph.

Joe Moyer (57:14)
It's more about keeping inbound stuff, which there's not a lot, but just making sure that they don't accidentally go someplace they're not supposed to. ⁓ and any way that they could unify that so you could do it on more than one iPad or more than one device would be so nice. I'm not sure why they haven't done that. I don't know what the ⁓ benefit is.

Jeff Battersby (57:28)
Yeah, it seems

Seems like a missing component at this point in time. To me.

Joe Moyer (57:33)
Yeah.

I agree.

Tom Anderson (57:38)
All right, we're at fifty seven minutes in some change. So

Jeff Battersby (57:41)
Yeah, it's plenty enough

boring conversation for anybody. ⁓

Joe Moyer (57:44)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (57:49)
Closing thoughts,

Jeff? When will you install the betas?

Jeff Battersby (57:52)
Why don't we leave it to Riley

Riley and and Joe? We can we can have them do closing thoughts and then Yeah, right. Yeah. Next.

Tom Anderson (57:56)
We know what you think, it's AI, you don't care.

Riley Hill (57:59)
⁓

Tom Anderson (58:02)
Ha ha ha.

Riley Hill (58:03)
Yeah. ⁓ You know, from an iPad perspective, well, like I said, there wasn't much platform-specific stuff for anything. Maybe on Vision OS, as I look at that page, there was a few more things than I thought. ⁓ Still no more native apps though, which is frustrating. ⁓ But ⁓ overall, you know, I don't...

like Joe was saying, like for me, AI has been clawed, the clawed app, either on my iPad or on my Mac, you know, and that's been serving my needs just fine. So it's nice Apple's doing all this stuff. ⁓ I'm sure I'll use some of it, but I wasn't, I wasn't one of these like pundits who was just, you know, screaming for Apple. Apple needs to do AI, needs to be, you know, they're behind blah, blah, blah. It's like.

I have AI in this app, it's fine. ⁓ So I'm glad, you know, but I'm glad they're keeping up. You know, if I were Tim Cook and now John Ternes, ⁓ I would always be worried about being Blackberry and like missing on something so completely, some big shift that you just, you lose everything. And so I get why they have to, even if maybe they don't believe in it, like, you have to keep up in some things just to stay relevant. And this is...

That's what this feels like. And you know, that's fine. You know, they had to do it. ⁓ And ⁓ we got some other small improvements too that are that are nice as well. So ⁓ I'm content. I won't say I'm not thrilled. I'm not disappointed. It's all fine. Just fine, I'd say.

Joe Moyer (59:49)
It's always good when yeah, I was gonna say Yep. This is fine. Yep, it's fine.

Tom Anderson (59:49)
Ha ha ha.

Jeff Battersby (59:51)
Which if your spouse said that to you, Riley, you'd know you're in a heck of a lot of trouble. No, it's fine.

Riley Hill (59:54)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (59:56)
That's fine. Don't worry about it. Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (59:58)
Yeah, you you go you go ahead and take that weekend with the boys. It's

Joe Moyer (1:00:01)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (1:00:02)
Hahaha!

Joe Moyer (1:00:06)
⁓ I you know, seeing Mr Tim Apple, Mr. Tim Cook at the at the rainbow, you know, at the at the intro was kind of cool to see. He mentioned they get a thousand app submissions per hour, which is insane. ⁓ and with everybody vibe coding now I can only imagine ⁓ what they're getting. ⁓ it felt like a almost like a quality of life kind of upgrade.

But the one thing I've been thinking a lot about is is I like to nerd out on stuff. So that's why I go to Claude because it's a little more nerdy, you know? Using Siri the way they want us to use it is gonna make is gonna require me to change my habits. So I think for me that'll be the biggest ⁓

challenge really is I'm so used to doing things the way I've done it. I'm so used to not using Siri. It just never really worked for me. It really will be a question of whether I can fully embrace the new features ⁓ in in a way that that makes sense. So I'm glad they're doing it. I'm hopeful. ⁓ but

I just I I'm so used to clogged. It's kinda like what we're on. I said I'm so used to going to the app, doing what I want to do. So it will be interesting to see how I incorporate that into my into my life. And I'm curious like how my wife will use it. You know, she she I told you she's been using it for a while and it seems to work for her. So you know, it'll really be interesting to see how it changes our the way we use our devices.

Tom Anderson (1:01:32)
So I went into this with kind of muted expectations. I mean, for WWDC there wasn't much hype around it. ⁓ and I think those expectations were fully met. I am excited about the performance improvements and the cleanup and some of the nice, you know, hey, we've gone back and tweaked this design or that design, so the the quality of life things. I am excited about that because I think that's been long overdue and I think that's, you know, is it's not something you're going to you know, it's not going to

blow you away, but that's something day to day that you will notice. Like if the app opens the way it's supposed to, an airdrop works better and all these different things. ⁓ so I'm excited about that. ⁓ the Siri stuff, you know, having seen it, like if we had just seen this for the first time, I'd been like, this looks pretty cool. But we saw all this two years ago. ⁓ now some of it's changed a little bit, you know, with the advances in AI and that gap too, but

the kind of basic concept of personal context, it's going to be able to surface things from all your apps just at the right time to make things more convenient. Like we'd seen all that before, so there wasn't anything really too exciting or new there. Other than the most important thing is it seems to work. ⁓ at least so far in the demos that they've showed us. Now, you know, we'll have to wait and see to know for sure. But so that's all I think, you know, I'm optimistic about all of that. And like Riley and Joe said, for

Jeff Battersby (1:02:44)
Yes.

Tom Anderson (1:02:56)
AI stuff, you know, I'm sure I will use it, like the ability to be able to tell it to do, hey, I'm gonna s you know, schedule a a party for watching the the Knicks game, you know, Thursday night, have some people over, so message Jeff, Joe, and Riley, you know, hey, here's what's on the menu, show up here, send them an invite, do it in the invites app, I don't care, whatever, and just have it string all of those together and just do it would be great. so I I like that concept, but I think the writing

⁓ and things like that. Like two years ago, writing with AI was kind of, wow, look, it can draft your email replies and everything like that. But it's shifted so far past that that like nobody really cares about the writing part too much anymore. It's you know, hey look, I can build apps, I can do all this research, I can feed it twelve PDFs and it can summarize whatever and I can then, you know, do an MCP over to this service and have it bring this stuff in. So it's really moved way past

just the writing part and I don't really care about that stuff too much. ⁓ and so I don't expect to not use Claude as much as I am now. I suspect that's going to continue or if Claude falls off the rails, whatever one I go to next. ⁓ but I do suspect I'll use the the kind of the things where

dips into different sections of your apps and it can put an invite on the calendar and send a message to somebody or hey build a shortcut that does something, you know, so some vibe coding and shortcuts or building extensions in Safari, those types of things.

Jeff Battersby (1:04:27)
Nice. Yeah, and you know me. I mean Tom, you've been a serial non monogamist when it comes to your various AI friends. You've used a lot for

Tom Anderson (1:04:40)
Well hold up now. Because I'm just telling you, those that can go pretty far these days, Jeff, and I'm not down that path. We're talking about platforms. We're not talking about AI mates, okay?

Jeff Battersby (1:04:41)
⁓ I know. I let it I left that wide open for ya. ⁓

Riley Hill (1:04:43)
He gets around is what you're saying.

Joe Moyer (1:04:46)
Mm-hmm.

Tom is actually

AI. Tom is actually an AI construct, everybody.

Jeff Battersby (1:04:57)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (1:04:58)
Mm-hmm

Jeff Battersby (1:04:59)
Yeah, just wanna let you all know. I ⁓ I think the thing I will be happiest about is the the tweaking under the covers. I I think. Tightening the OS says plural. ⁓ making them work better is great for me. ⁓ we'll see. Maybe there'll be something AI that I'm interested in using. ⁓ you know, the more

Tom Anderson (1:05:00)
Explains a lot.

Joe Moyer (1:05:02)
Yep.

Jeff Battersby (1:05:24)
The more I see, the less I'm inclined to say that I will, but you know, I'm open. I'm not ⁓ I'm not a closed ⁓ I'm not closed any of those things and like I've said I do use ⁓ I do use Claude from time to time for things that that, you know, I need to use Claude for. So ⁓ we'll see. We shall see. ⁓ I I am excited to get my hands on a public bait on one of these before too long and see see how that plays out. So

And as Tom mentioned before, we've now burned an hour and five minutes of your time. And we're grateful that you stuck around this long. ⁓ Riley, Joe. please. Yes, of course.

Riley Hill (1:06:01)
Can I do one more real quick?

super last comment I wanted to make. ⁓ Super last. ⁓ Isn't it kind of crappy? I mean, they didn't know what they didn't know, but it feels to me kind of crappy. They have been selling these devices proudly badged with, know, built for Apple intelligence for years, and only the absolute newest ones can take full advantage of everything.

Jeff Battersby (1:06:06)
Super last.

Ha ha ha.

huh.

Yeah, that's kinda crappy.

Tom Anderson (1:06:28)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (1:06:29)
You know, all those 8 gigabyte

Joe Moyer (1:06:30)
Why they have those little numbers.

Riley Hill (1:06:31)
devices

at something.

Jeff Battersby (1:06:35)
Yeah. Three, four. ⁓ as as they

Tom Anderson (1:06:36)
Yep.

Joe Moyer (1:06:37)
Yeah, yeah.

Jeff Battersby (1:06:38)
used to say in the print business, Riley, you buried the lead. That should have been at the top of the show. Now we've got like three people left listening to the end of this. Yes, no, you're you're a hundred percent accurate.

Riley Hill (1:06:42)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (1:06:42)
Ha ha ha.

Joe Moyer (1:06:42)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (1:06:48)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (1:06:49)
Yeah.

But you are exactly right. I think that you know, they were squeezing those margins

for everything they could and now it's kind of come back around. But

Riley Hill (1:06:59)
Uh-huh.

Jeff Battersby (1:06:59)
Yep. Yep.

Here we are. Different kind of reach around. it's the end of the show, Tom. Nobody's gonna say anything. we are always grateful to psychokinetics and ⁓ Randall Martin Design, Psychokinetics for Music Celsius Seven, the the gentleman who ⁓ lets us do that. So if you can check out those two artists on ⁓ on your favorite streaming app.

Joe Moyer (1:07:08)
Ha ha.

Tom Anderson (1:07:09)
No.

Jeff Battersby (1:07:29)
Randall Martin design for our ⁓ show logo, which we love. ⁓ Riley, Joe, really grateful you guys were able to pop on and do this. Makes ⁓ makes it a lot more fun, more interesting than just Tom and me talking to each other. ⁓ so we're really really grateful to have you. And as a reminder, there is if you go to basickf show dot com ⁓ a link where you can ⁓ you know give us a little money.

Tom Anderson (1:07:43)
Mm.

Riley Hill (1:07:43)
Hehehe.

Joe Moyer (1:07:44)
Thank

you. Yeah. It's always good to join you guys.

Riley Hill (1:07:48)
lot of fun.

Jeff Battersby (1:07:59)
that helps us stay afloat. So if you want to do that, please do. We'll be grateful for it. And as always, feedback at basicafshow dot com. ⁓ more than happy to hear from you. Encourage you to send us little emails.

Tom Anderson (1:08:13)
Yes, we've gotten a couple. All right, Riley, where should people go to find more of your excellent work, sir?

Jeff Battersby (1:08:15)
Yeah, we have.

Riley Hill (1:08:21)
Slatepad.org for the writing and then it'll link you to the YouTube channel where I post the semi-occasional YouTube video mostly about iPad stuff but you know sometimes they do other things but those are the two places.

Tom Anderson (1:08:37)
Awesome. And Joe, how about you?

Joe Moyer (1:08:39)
you could find me at twenty four letters dot net. ⁓ you can use the the digits twenty four or you can spell it out. then I also publish lately more occasionally than I'd like because the day job has been ⁓

you know, sort of sucking the oxygen out of the creative part of my life, but we're working on rebalancing ⁓ the journaling guide, which ⁓ is a ideally bi weekly look into how you can make journaling work for you and and different ideas. ⁓ I like to look sometimes at the history of journaling too to see how people have done it. If you sign up, you get the ⁓ the journaling challenge, just it's super simple, ten days of prompts.

it'll start the day after you sign up at six AM. You can always reach out to me for feedback or if you want to talk about how the process is going for you. And then I am still planning ⁓ a live call about journaling at some point. So to be determined on that. Yeah.

Tom Anderson (1:09:33)
Awesome. All right, great. Well thank you guys. Appreciate it. Both of you coming on with us. We'll have you back, of course, ⁓ some point later this year and we'll dig into some new stuff. But that's it. So thank you everyone for joining us for this episode of Basic AF. We do appreciate it. And until next time.

Jeff Battersby (1:09:36)
Yes, definitely.

Joe Moyer (1:09:36)
Thank you.

Riley Hill (1:09:37)
Thank you.

Jeff Battersby (1:09:52)
See ya one hour and ten minutes.