Tom Anderson (00:08)
This is Basic AF episode ninety-eight. That's right, just too shy of the big one hundred. Show notes for this episode can be found at basicafshow.com. Hello everyone, I'm Tom Anderson. Thanks for hanging out with us again. I'm joined, as always, by Jeff Battersby, who is at a secret remote location for this episode.

Jeff Battersby (00:26)
Live

from my father's bathroom in Spokane, Washington. Alright, Tom. Good.

Tom Anderson (00:33)
good. How's the bathroom?

Jeff Battersby (00:35)
It's great. Set up on the dryer. every possible noise you can imagine is going on here and yeah, other than, you know, at least I've got a quick run if I need to, you know, take care of any business.

Tom Anderson (00:48)
Have old man issues, you're right there. You can do whatever you need

Chris Freitag (00:48)
Yeah

Tom Anderson (00:51)
to do.

Jeff Battersby (00:52)
Tom, you always stop

me when I do the fun stuff. I I don't know what your problem is, but we Yeah, it is. It doesn't take me long to to to degenerate into my usual sub

Tom Anderson (00:57)
And it's always at about fifty seven seconds of the of the show. No. We just get it out of the way.

Jeff Battersby (01:07)
we have a guest this morning, Tom.

Tom Anderson (01:10)
We do, and we're very excited to welcome back to the show.

Jeff Battersby (01:13)
Yeah. A hundred percent.

Tom Anderson (01:16)
creative professional, photographer, YouTuber, fellow Denver Broncos fan, Chris Freitag. Welcome back to the show. Chris, good to

Jeff Battersby (01:23)
Ha ha ha

Tom Anderson (01:24)
see you again.

Chris Freitag (01:25)
Hey guys, it's good to be here.

Jeff Battersby (01:28)
Good to have you.

Tom Anderson (01:28)
So we thought

we wanted to have Chris come on because of the new photography related things, both with the iPhone eighteen pro and some of the new things in iOS twenty seven and some of them are specific to the iPhone eighteen pro. We'll talk about that.

Jeff Battersby (01:46)
Hundred percent.

Tom Anderson (01:47)
so looking forward to it. It should be a fun conversation.

Jeff Battersby (01:49)
Yeah. So how you been, Chris? Let's let's get that out of the way straight away.

Chris Freitag (01:55)
pretty good. You know, I'm I'm keeping busy and this is just an amazing timeline we're in. So everything is just trying to keep it all above board

Jeff Battersby (02:03)
But

Chris Freitag (02:06)
and try to focus on the little things that make me happy.

Jeff Battersby (02:10)
There you go, fair. I'm with you. I'm totally with you, man. You and I are on this the same

Tom Anderson (02:12)
Yep, same here.

Jeff Battersby (02:16)
plane, pal. yeah, I I feel you. So we we don't need to go there. Tom doesn't like politics, so we'll stay out of it.

Tom Anderson (02:26)
it's much more than that, Jeff. There's

Jeff Battersby (02:28)
Is it?

Tom Anderson (02:29)
there's stuff everywhere we could dig into if we wanted to.

Chris Freitag (02:32)
I know,

we could talk about the Broncos. That would also make me depressed, so.

Tom Anderson (02:35)
Yeah, you know, but we'll get to the topic here in a second. But

Chris Freitag (02:40)
Yeah

Tom Anderson (02:41)
when the schedule came out, Chris, let me know if you felt the same way. When the schedule came out, I was like, Man, this first like six weeks is brutal. And if they ended up three and three,

Chris Freitag (02:49)
Yeah, you know, it's funny that you say that.

Tom Anderson (02:51)
four and two, I'd be like, That's actually really good.

Chris Freitag (02:55)
I said the same words, three and three would be great. Now we're two and two and I'm like, come on, what's

going on?

Tom Anderson (02:59)
This sucks.

Yeah, so we'll see. It it it's interesting. But before we get to the photography stuff, there is an Apple event coming up this week. not like

Jeff Battersby (03:19)
Tuesday, right?

Tom Anderson (03:22)
yes. Not in the sense that there's going to be a

Like like it was for the iPhone, where's there's the big video they recorded Apple Park and everything. This one apparently is going to be in New York City.

Chris Freitag (03:33)
Mm-hmm.

Tom Anderson (03:34)
and the invitation simply said,

Jeff Battersby (03:34)
New York City.

Tom Anderson (03:38)
Welcome home. So the speculation is this is all around home related products, and there is a new product that's been in the rumor mill for a while that it seems like now

Jeff Battersby (03:48)
Mm-hmm.

Tom Anderson (03:49)
that Siri AI has been released, like the floodgates are just starting to open up like

There have been rumors for a long time, they've got all this stuff queued up and ready to go. home hub, don't know what that's going to be, but the theory is there's or the rumor is it's like a home pod with a screen and a whole bunch of Siri AI stuff happening with that. home pod mini, maybe Apple TV 4K updated. and then at some point too in this month, don't know, doesn't seem to fit with.

this theme for this one, but maybe a new iPad mini, an OLED MacBook, fourteen inch MacBook Pro with an six

Jeff Battersby (04:28)
With a touch screen

Tom Anderson (04:29)
and there's touchscreen. Yep. So a whole lot of stuff. I mean they've just I think they cued it all up for John Turnus to give him lots of stuff to talk about. It's like yeah.

Jeff Battersby (04:39)
Yeah. And that

touch screen's kinda interesting. We like g we don't want to go too far into the weeds with this stuff, but i that was Steve Jobs no no for a long time. So

Chris Freitag (04:50)
Yeah,

you know, it's funny. I agree with him. Every time I use my iPad, I think of him saying that when my iPad is on my keyboard, I don't want to touch the screen. Like it's it's

Jeff Battersby (05:00)
Right.

Chris Freitag (05:01)
uncomfortable. It's it's a strange gesture.

Jeff Battersby (05:04)
Yeah, I'm with you. so we'll we'll see. Be interesting. And it'll be interesting to see if it supports something like Apple Pencil. which would be interesting. I I don't like anybody putting their fingers on my screen. We were we were looking at flights, we're leaving we're leaving Seattle tomorrow. Seattle. Spokane, you know, one of those states in the West.

One of those cities. And we're headed down to LA. And we were looking at looking at flights and my wife is like getting her finger really close to my swing touch it Stop

Tom Anderson (05:46)
I do

that at work. People come by and they'll be looking at something and I'll be like, No no no no no, we don't touch displays

Chris Freitag (05:50)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (05:51)
here. Like iPad is fine,

Jeff Battersby (05:51)
Yeah, keep your fingers up.

Tom Anderson (05:53)
but like I don't know, for some reason like the MacBook display or or an external display even too is like Yeah.

So

Jeff Battersby (05:57)
People love to touch. It's like no. So anyway.

Chris Freitag (06:01)
So I don't know how much you

guys get into rumor talk, but if the rumors are true and they're partnering with LG, that's a very interesting moment in time because of what just came out about LG's televisions.

Tom Anderson (06:16)
That was my first thought as well.

Chris Freitag (06:19)
It's like, boy, that's a bad, they're

Jeff Battersby (06:22)
Look.

Chris Freitag (06:22)
going to have some PR stuff to talk about, like what's under control, what's the privacy implications, stuff like that.

Tom Anderson (06:30)
Right, because those were caught screenshotting very, very, very frequently.

Chris Freitag (06:36)
Yeah, and recording even when you had recording off.

Tom Anderson (06:39)
Right. So yeah, that's a interesting thing. And I saw someone comment it and it does kind of feel this way. It feels kinda like remember when before the iPhone came out and there was the iTunes phone, that Motorola rocker, and it was awful. And somebody

Chris Freitag (06:53)
Yes, it was awful.

Tom Anderson (06:55)
commented this feels kind of like that, that they're just kind of touch testing the waters a little bit with this thing, but they've got some better stuff coming maybe, which would make sense, but I don't know, we'll see.

Chris Freitag (07:03)
Hopefully. Yeah.

Yeah, that Motorola rocker. I had that. It burned my ears when I was on a phone call. It was the first phone I was ever actually worried about radiation.

Tom Anderson (07:23)
It's not good.

Chris Freitag (07:24)
Anyway, yeah, I digress.

Tom Anderson (07:26)
All right. So that is going to be on the thirteenth, this Apple event. So if you're interested in Apple's home devices, which I'm presuming most of us are to some degree at least, so we'll see what they have coming out. now on to the main topic of the discussion for this episode. we're gonna talk about photography. And so in last episode

Jeff kind of gave us his first impressions of his new iPhone 18 Pro. And Chris has also picked up the 18 Pro. So Chris, why don't we start with your first impressions and then we can kind of

Jeff Battersby (08:02)
Actually let's

let's start with your how you happen to pick up an eighteen pro after having picked up a seventeen pro after having picked up an i

Chris Freitag (08:13)
You

Jeff Battersby (08:14)
iPhone air. Yeah.

Tom Anderson (08:16)
And how you're getting this offer free now.

Jeff Battersby (08:18)
Yeah, yeah, that's the I think that's the deal.

Chris Freitag (08:18)
Yeah.

So the iPhone Air was amazing and it just didn't have the cameras that I needed. And so I decided to get the 17 Pro. So that was just an exchange, right? I didn't go into debt or anything for the Air. But I was planning on keeping the 17 Pro because I knew I'm not interested in a foldable phone. It's just not for me. And I was really excited about the rumors I was hearing about the 20.

And so I was going to just wait one one because 20th anniversary is next year. So I actually had no plans. In fact, I ordered the Apple Watch 4 to replace my original Apple Watch Ultra, the Apple Watch Ultra 4.

Tom Anderson (09:03)
Great upgrade.

Chris Freitag (09:05)
And I decided to get a second band, the band I bought at the Apple Store, and I went to the Apple Store to pick it up. And out of curiosity, I wanted to know if I could upgrade my

iPhone 17 Pro and the new lease option that was available gave me the iPhone 7 or the iPhone 18 Pro for free. $0 a month is my agreement with Klarna. And

Tom Anderson (09:32)
Jeff badmouthed them and look at this, Jeff.

Jeff Battersby (09:34)
Yeah, yeah. Well I bad mouthed them because I didn't realise they were Swedish. Like like and Klorna sounds like a you know, sounds like that. So I I I

Chris Freitag (09:44)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (09:45)
beg forgiveness.

Chris Freitag (09:47)
So I mean, I did lose the trade-in value of my iPhone 17 Pro, which next year I'll have to obviously pay for when I get a new phone. But now I'm guaranteed to get the 20 because my lease is only for 12 months. So I have the iPhone 18 Pro now. To me, it just felt like, they'll just give me the iPhone 18 Pro for a year. I'll take it. So that's how I have it.

Jeff Battersby (10:11)
And tell us so you were going in to get a a new watch band? That's what you were going in. And did you walk

Chris Freitag (10:16)
Yeah. Yeah, I,

Jeff Battersby (10:20)
out with a watch band in addition to your in

Chris Freitag (10:23)
Yes.

Jeff Battersby (10:23)
addition Okay, so you got all the things. huh.

Chris Freitag (10:26)
Yeah, I

literally like I mean, I walked myself into a trap essentially, because am I not going to get the new iPhone? That's ridiculous. That's a ridiculous thing to think at this point after having all of them since the first one. Why did I think I was going to skip this

Jeff Battersby (10:42)
really, you have had every single one.

Chris Freitag (10:44)
one?

Jeff Battersby (10:46)
It's so funny. So you are gonna get a duo then.

Chris Freitag (10:49)
No,

no. You know what? What's

funny about the duo is I know myself. I would spend the first month opening and closing it just to watch that

Jeff Battersby (10:59)
Yeah.

Chris Freitag (10:59)
animation. That's all I would be doing. But then after that first month, I don't know that I would open it much. That's my issue with that form factor is I think it would be really cool for a little while. And then day-to-day use would dictate using it like a regular phone.

so it just feels like I would have all this extra stuff for no reason, but that's my, my own feeling on that. But

Jeff Battersby (11:24)
Gotcha.

Chris Freitag (11:25)
the animation is awesome.

Tom Anderson (11:27)
Yeah, it's really nice.

Jeff Battersby (11:28)
Yeah, it it is.

Tom Anderson (11:31)
So I'll let you know if that holds true for me or not. It's like I hardly open it anymore. It's just a squatty phone.

Jeff Battersby (11:38)
A squatty phone, which sounds like a squatty potty, but that's because I'm sitting in the bathroom recording. Anyway.

Tom Anderson (11:42)
Of sorts. Yeah. Although I will say with that real quick before we go back to

Chris Freitag (11:42)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (11:47)
it, with with the duo being shorter, I I think I'm going to like that because when I looked at the Samsung Galaxy Fold eight,

Chris Freitag (11:56)
Mm-hmm.

Tom Anderson (11:56)
I like that it wasn't so tall. I think the phones have gotten too tall. And in my pocket

Chris Freitag (12:00)
Sure.

Tom Anderson (12:01)
it's annoying as hell. and so that's one aspect of it. But we'll get into that maybe in a couple of weeks if I get one. But or if I have it by then I'm definitely going to order it. We'll see when it comes in.

Chris Freitag (12:12)
Yeah, I think it'll be popular.

Jeff Battersby (12:16)
Yeah, very much.

Tom Anderson (12:16)
Maybe, yeah.

Jeff Battersby (12:18)
So w what are your first impressions of the the actual phone? We'll get into the camera business 'cause that's w really what you're here for. But what are your first impressions of the of the phone?

Chris Freitag (12:27)
Yeah, I mean, coming

from a 17 Pro, it feels very familiar. In fact, I have the exact same tech woven case I was using on my 17 Pro. It's the same. Like it's similar to my Ultra 4 and my original Ultra. I got the same natural titanium. Like it just feels like the exact same device. Just looking at it from a physical standpoint, just holding it in your hand. It's, there's nothing really that changed that drastically.

I'm not noticing any major improvement on the performance because the 17 pro was already really great. So from a performance standpoint, it's, it doesn't feel like I stepped into a new model or anything like that. It just, it kind of feels like I just picked up a black version of what I had.

Jeff Battersby (13:17)
Yeah. So you ended up getting the black one. I got the red one. I love the color.

Chris Freitag (13:21)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (13:24)
So the and that's a more matte finish.

Chris Freitag (13:28)
Yeah, it's like my, I think it's my third all black iPhone. I think the

Jeff Battersby (13:35)
Okay.

Chris Freitag (13:36)
iPhone 5 and then the iPhone 7 was

beautiful. The iPhone 7

Tom Anderson (13:39)
I had that one. Yeah, I had that one.

Chris Freitag (13:41)
was really nice. This one reminds me of the iPhone 7.

Jeff Battersby (13:44)
Interesting. All right, cool. Yeah, I I as I said in our last episode, my feeling is, phone, you know, that's really it it doesn't i there's nothing too too crazy about it as far as I'm concerned in terms of you know what it's what it's capable of. I think the thing that's really impressive to me, and that I continue to play with every day, is the cameras.

in the fact that

Chris Freitag (14:12)
Yes.

Jeff Battersby (14:12)
we've got we've got some aperture. Now I you may or may not have heard I use Halide a ton and Halide came up with an update that actually enhances the apertures, the capabilities of that. but I wanna know from a photography perspective what your feelings are on on how these new cameras work. Yeah you've had an opportunity to play with this quite a bit.

Chris Freitag (14:40)
Yes.

Yes.

Jeff Battersby (14:41)
All right,

so talk talk to us about that.

Chris Freitag (14:44)
So the first thing I think that you do is you open the aperture wide, meaning you make the number lower. So all iPhones for the last 10 years or something like that have been at aperture 1.78. And that's just been their default place, which is great. It's a pretty wide open aperture. So you actually can get separation on objects that are close to the camera and things behind them are blurred out naturally.

without using any fake effects, like you can

Jeff Battersby (15:16)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Freitag (15:17)
do that on, on any phone today, you just need the subject very close to the camera. but having it at 1.4 eight drops it even further and allows in more light, which is great for night and dark shot, shots. So I go out really early in the morning. And one of the first set of photos that I took was of a sunrise over, a reservoir and the.

The images came out beautifully. They were not noisy. I just, thought it was perfect. And I was using 1.48 to get in the most light. So that meant there was details in the shadows that when you first looked at it, they looked silhouetted. But when I was able to pull up the dark in those images, there were, there was information in the shadows because I was at

Jeff Battersby (16:04)
Yeah.

Chris Freitag (16:04)
such an open aperture.

Jeff Battersby (16:07)
Very cool. So you that was some of the first shots. What what kinds of things have you done with the camera?

Chris Freitag (16:15)
Yeah, so

since I've been playing around more with F4 because there's a really nice starlight effect from the aperture blades at F4. And when you are closing down the aperture, the number goes up. at F4, the aperture blades actually close down into a smaller pinpoint. And because of that, when light comes through direct light, like street light or sun, you get what's called sun stars or starbursts.

And that is a really fun effect that is just natural part of the aperture blades. So it's not

a digital effect. It's not fake. And I've been having fun with that. In fact, I just took a photo yesterday of my steering wheel. The Toyota symbol was shining in the sun. And I took a photo of that because there was all these sun stars all over. So yeah, it's fun to play with your camera that way.

Jeff Battersby (17:13)
Awesome. That's really really interesting. I as I mentioned, I'm using Halide. Halide, interestingly, do you do you use that at all?

Chris Freitag (17:24)
I did in the previous version, I pretty much moved over to Moment. And then the

Leica Lux app, just recently paid for a subscription to that.

Jeff Battersby (17:36)
okay. So one

of the things that that Haylight has done, one of the things that's interesting to me that Haylight has done is they've got the ability actually to more finely control the aperture.

Chris Freitag (17:51)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Battersby (17:52)
So in in you know, using the the Apple's camera you get four settings for the for the aperture. you can you can go from

F one point four eight or sorry F all all the way to F four point but any increment in between. I don't know how big a deal that's gonna end up being in reality. You know, I don't know whether

Chris Freitag (18:18)
Right.

Jeff Battersby (18:18)
or not that that's gonna make a huge difference. I mean anybody that's used a regular camera knows that you get fixed apertures that are pretty that are pretty standard. But that is one of the features that they're offering

that they're offering with this. So they've got finer control over what the aperture settings are gonna be. Yes, right. You can play with

Chris Freitag (18:35)
That's interesting. So you can do like F 3.2. Right.

Tom Anderson (18:38)
Yeah, I th I think they made that available to

third party apps, like there's API or something they could do for that.

Chris Freitag (18:44)
Okay, that's cool.

Tom Anderson (18:45)
Yeah, 'cause I think Blackmagic does that as well.

Jeff Battersby (18:45)
Yeah.

okay, cool. Yeah, so that's it's a interesting feature. Again, I'm just you know, I've been using Haylight almost every day. They keep on a a adding other film types that are similar to Apple's you know, Apple has also added a bunch of new styles, they call them. i

Chris Freitag (19:10)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (19:11)
i Apple stuff al always has felt a little over processed to me. but i i and halides seem feel a little more filmic, if you will. You know, they they have have certain film qualities. So I kinda like that a lot. so you're you're typically shooting with you know with a standard camera, you know.

Digital camera. You're are you working with film again or no?

Chris Freitag (19:45)
I was for a little bit. I wanted to see if I had, tricked myself into thinking I was good at this by using modern cameras that, helped me. So I wanted to go back to film to see if I, you know, was really doing this myself. And that was fun to see that. Yes, I understand the camera. I'm, I'm able to get good photography out of film as well. but the process of film is, is cumbersome to me. You know, I started in film.

There was a reason I liked digital so much. I like the instant gratification of seeing your images. So I don't hold a lot of nostalgia for film. I love photography, but I just prefer digital photography at this point.

Jeff Battersby (20:29)
Okay. Got it. So as far as photographs, what are you using the camera on the

Chris Freitag (20:38)
Well, it's a mix. I actually really like the new photographic styles of the new OS

Jeff Battersby (20:46)
Uh-huh.

Chris Freitag (20:47)
And then the like a lux has some looks that really just work in certain situations So I've been using a mix of those two at this point and but the built-in camera is still mapped to Double tap on the camera control button to launch it. That's my built-in camera, but I have a quick

setting on my customized home screen where the like a button is down in the lower right corner. So I have quick access to both cameras, but I really like the foot.

Jeff Battersby (21:16)
Okay. Yeah, I've done that with the action button.

Chris Freitag (21:20)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (21:22)
You really like the photographic styles? So talk to us about that.

Chris Freitag (21:24)
yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (21:27)
What is it that you like about it? 'Cause I've kind of avoided so I'm I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are on it and and which ones you're finding to be the best.

Chris Freitag (21:37)
Right, yeah. The reason they're better now is they map better to my pro style workflow. Because when I take a photo with my Leica Q3, I bring it into Lightroom. The first thing that happens with Lightroom is a color profile is assigned. You can't do anything about that. So if you don't have a color profile for camera matching, you get Adobe Color.

but that color profile is your base. And then you work from there. You can change the color profile if you want, and that changes the look of the image. And then you start adjusting your exposure and all of that, which is great. It's a workflow I am comfortable with, and I've been doing it for a long time. The new photographic styles feel just like that, meaning you're picking your base. So I use amber. And the base...

Tom Anderson (22:29)
What I used to.

Chris Freitag (22:30)
photographic style is just your general color that you're starting with. But in the new editing, when you're editing your photo, you do everything that you want to do on your photo, but it's all alive. Meaning you can go into the photo in your Photos app and hit the edit button and you can start adjusting your photographic style for the photo that you just took. And you...

it's like adjusting all of those sliders and everything in a light room. You're essentially doing the same exact thing. And then they have some new controls like soft skin or film. And the film look has a setting for grain. I don't use grain ever because I think it looks too digital, but the film look, think answers a lot of what you're saying about Apple's camera looking over processed.

Jeff Battersby (23:22)
Uh-huh.

Chris Freitag (23:23)
It does things to the highlights that

it almost like smooths them out. So if you have something bright in the scene, it softens it as it hits the edge of darker parts, like a leaf, for example. So you have a sunrise in the background and leaves in the foreground and the light coming over the leaf looks a lot more natural now with that film style applied. So I

Jeff Battersby (23:47)
Okay, interesting.

Chris Freitag (23:49)
find it actually great. I love them.

Tom Anderson (23:51)
Yeah.

Chris Freitag (23:52)
And you know, when I...

open it on my Mac, Photos app on your Mac is way more powerful than what's on your phone, which is a shame. I really wish they could mirror those experiences, but you can actually get into that photographic style even more on your Mac. So yeah, it's it's been a real step up for me. So I don't mind shooting in HEAFE the file format that is baking the look in because it doesn't. You know, you can still adjust

pretty with a lot of control. So

Jeff Battersby (24:28)
Mm.

Chris Freitag (24:28)
you don't have to shoot in raw is what I'm getting at.

Tom Anderson (24:29)
Yeah. Now Chris,

you mentioned Amber. Do you do you have it set as your default or do you just use the standard and then apply them after the fact?

Chris Freitag (24:36)
I have Amber set to default and then I have the slider pulled down toward the shadows and then I think a little to the right to give it a little more punch on the color. But as I stated, I can make edits at any time. So if I don't like Amber for that scene, I can switch to gold or rose gold if there's people in the photo. So it's really nice to just have that level of control.

Jeff Battersby (25:01)
Yeah, but I have to play with that a little more, I guess. I have not like I said, I think, you know, Once Bit and Twice Shy have not played with the photographic styles as much as I as maybe I should, so I I might hop hop back on that. you know, as we all know, one of the guys from Haleide has found his way over to Apple, so I you know, for better or for worse for Halide, expect to find more of the things that I love about Halide showing up in Apple's camera. And then we'll

Chris Freitag (25:31)
Right.

Jeff Battersby (25:31)
We'll let the lawsuits commence. the what are you finding that you're using the camera on the phone for? 'Cause obviously I w I would imagine ninety percent of the time you're you're carrying your normal camera kit with you someplace.

Chris Freitag (25:49)
Yeah,

you know, it's just the spur of the moments. So I went to a company party at a place here in Denver called Meow Wolf, which is this real, you know, it's like a art collective museum style, but it's all very new and interesting modern art and it's set in a very dark scene. And I didn't want to take my camera to this museum. And so I went to Meow Wolf with my

iPhone, my new iPhone Pro 18. And I was just having a blast being able to shoot in this environment with a wide open aperture in the dark with these bright colors everywhere. And I think the photos came out so well. this was a, you know, it was an adventure. You're walking around this place. It's all very strange and unusual. And I just really enjoyed the experience, but having a camera so convenient, so.

capable in my pocket was fantastic. I mean, these are photos that I would print out. These are photos that I would, you know, put on my portfolio. They are not low quality

photography.

Jeff Battersby (27:03)
Excellent. Yeah, and you know, the old adage, d what's the best camera? You know, the

Chris Freitag (27:07)
Right.

Jeff Battersby (27:08)
the one the one that's with you. That's you know. And that's one of the things that I love about love about this. so I was new to you know, I had a a fifteen Pro Max before this and I jumped up to the now to the eighteen pro. I went smaller, which I'm really happy about. You know, that that smaller form factor is really good for me.

Everybody initially was kind of pissy about the camera button. You know, the one that

Chris Freitag (27:38)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (27:39)
and other than the fact that I'm so used to flipping it the other direction because I was using the you know, the volume and all that to to take pictures. I I think that's great. I'm playing a little bit with the zoom on it. I kinda wish that I could change aperture using the using the slide on that so I could make those changes.

But I I have to say that I that I really am really enjoying that feature. It's it's actually a pretty pretty cool tool and feels like a regular camera button on a regular camera. again, you're the guy that got me back into you know normal photography, full format normal photography.

Chris Freitag (28:24)
Right.

Jeff Battersby (28:24)
Which I'm very grateful for. You know, I'm I'm I really I really kinda love it. But that

That camera button to me is is pretty is is nice. I I like it, you know, especially if I'm gonna be using Apple's built-in camera. It'd be nice if I could, you know, push that to hay live. But I I like it a lot. Do you use that feature and are you using it also to change zoom levels or any of that kind of, you know, any of those kinds of settings?

Chris Freitag (28:59)
Not really. I use it as a launcher. I

Jeff Battersby (29:02)
Okay.

Chris Freitag (29:03)
don't even use it to take the photo. And it's just because of where the button is on the side. It's

Jeff Battersby (29:08)
Okay.

Chris Freitag (29:09)
so awkward to hold the camera for me and press that button at the same time that I end up

Jeff Battersby (29:13)
Gotcha.

Chris Freitag (29:13)
just holding the camera steady with my fingers and using my thumb on the button. I'll come back every once in a while to try out the sliders to see if I'm missing something or if they've fine tuned it any better. And I still find it a little clumsy.

Tom Anderson (29:28)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Freitag (29:30)
You know, the new camera controls on iOS 17 or sorry, iOS 27 for the iPhone 18

Jeff Battersby (29:38)
It's too many numbers.

Chris Freitag (29:39)
Pro, too many numbers.

Tom Anderson (29:40)
Yeah.

Chris Freitag (29:42)
I really like the camera controls. I really like that they gave us so many. You know, I've been using faster or slower shutter speeds to do some

Jeff Battersby (29:50)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Freitag (29:51)
like traffic shots and things like that. Just having more control is really a lot of fun.

And I like that the apps, the third party apps are, you know, quickly updating their apps. Like even the Leica one was updated really fast to give me some more control.

Jeff Battersby (30:13)
you hold the hand in the the phone in your left hand or your right hand?

Chris Freitag (30:18)
It's in my right hand. Almost always.

Jeff Battersby (30:20)
Yeah. So I I could see the camera button

being a a pain in the neck and for for you. I hold the phone in my left hand. everything

Chris Freitag (30:27)
Okay.

Jeff Battersby (30:28)
I do with it is in my left hand and that's very convenient because it's my forefinger, but then it's like, wait, which direction do I f do I flip it to and then I'm fine and then I'm getting my fingers in the you know i if you hold it the other way, the camera you can't see me 'cause I've got my my camera off.

But the the camera actually the the camera's lenses are lower. If you flip it over that way, they're higher, and I tend to have fingers in the way. So it's it's taken

Chris Freitag (30:57)
Right.

Jeff Battersby (30:58)
a lot to get used to, but I really do like the like that camera. You know, just the launch of it is is great. so I'm finding that to be a pretty a pretty cool feature. I don't like there's a delay, you know, when you slide on that.

there's a delay between the your slide and the and the zoom level that that appears there.

Chris Freitag (31:23)
Right.

Jeff Battersby (31:23)
but overall I find it to be a really convenient thing. It's one of the few things that I'm I'm not left handed, I'm kinda lefty righty, but there are a lot of things that I do with my left hand that that I don't you know, th that I can't do. Some of that's because I was a carpenter for years and my right hand is just like it's

Doesn't doesn't grip things the way that it should. but it's it it's very convenient, I think. I like I like the way that feature works. I'm not in love though with the the slidey thing and I really wish that that would be an aperture change as opposed to just a zoom level change. But

Chris Freitag (32:04)
Yeah, it would make sense as an aperture or a shutter change.

Jeff Battersby (32:07)
Right. Yeah, totally. So who knows, maybe that's a feature we'll get in some future iteration of this. But but I

Tom Anderson (32:13)
Hey.

Chris, have you noticed any difference in that button between say the sixteen pro and then the seventeen and the eighteen? Have they iterated on that at all? Or is it still like on the sixteen I found, like you said, it's very clumsy and like it was too imprecise. Sometimes it would register. I was trying to change things, other times it wouldn't.

Chris Freitag (32:32)
Right.

Tom Anderson (32:33)
any difference? Has has that gotten better at all?

Chris Freitag (32:35)
I think they've definitely dialed in the control over it. It used to be, I felt it was too squirrely. It just barely brushing it changed settings and that was a frustration point on the 16. So I definitely feel like they figured out how to make it a little more usable. It's just, it's like they have an interesting idea and they just, I feel like they haven't flushed it out yet.

it could become something good. But it's just, I feel like it's in a strange location. And I generally feel like it just does not get me to where I need as fast as expanding open camera control buttons right on the screen and being able to tap huge tap areas and get right to those controls.

Tom Anderson (33:27)
Yeah. Do either of you use the controls they've put up at the top of the viewfinder in the camera?

Chris Freitag (33:34)
I do. It's interesting. They push the control you use up to the top. So there's only a limited number of shelf items. I wish you could pin them, but

Tom Anderson (33:45)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Freitag (33:46)
they don't pin. if you, if you use your histogram once and then you don't use it again for a while, it'll be up there on the top for a while. And then as you use other controls, it'll push it out of the top. So it's like this.

It's like this shelf of items that just appear as you use. Yeah, yeah, it's

Jeff Battersby (34:06)
It's dynamic.

Tom Anderson (34:07)
More like a more like a recent's than a favourites. Yeah.

Chris Freitag (34:11)
like that right side of the dock. Yeah.

Tom Anderson (34:15)
Perfect.

Yeah, and

Jeff Battersby (34:18)
Very cool.

Tom Anderson (34:19)
I think correct me if I'm wrong on this too. I think when you bring up the the controls from the bottom that have the bigger tap targets on it, I think those are kind of locked in place too. Like you can't or reorganize those either, right? Like if you wanted to put some

Chris Freitag (34:30)
Those are locked in place. Right.

Tom Anderson (34:33)
closer to your thumb at the bottom just to make them a little easier to get to or something.

Chris Freitag (34:36)
That's a really good point, though. Why is aperture on the bottom and why is shutter speed on the top? It would be nice if those two things were closer together. I think they should be movable. That would be nice.

Tom Anderson (34:49)
Yeah, that'll be a feature on the iPhone twenty, they'll software lock it in.

Chris Freitag (34:51)
Yeah, right. Yeah. Which, yeah,

Jeff Battersby (34:52)
Yeah.

Chris Freitag (34:55)
that raises a whole other thing with me. Like, I realize there's technical things I do, but it feels so soon, like the 17 feels like it should have gotten some of this.

Tom Anderson (35:07)
Yeah, I don't see why it couldn't have gotten like the the couple of things that we were talking about earlier with the the film and the skin tones and and

Chris Freitag (35:14)
Right.

Tom Anderson (35:14)
things like that. and originally when they had put the I guess they just made a mistake in the marketing material because they said it would go back to I think the fifteen or sixteen and then they quickly took that out. and it's not. But yeah, that would I think it does does make a lot of sense to me. You know, maybe there are reasons, but

It's one of those things

Chris Freitag (35:35)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (35:35)
that seems kinda iffy because the the photographic styles three, which are those things we've been talking about, are on the eighteen pro models and it's gonna be on the duo. So it seems like if it's on the duo it could run on the seventeen just fine.

Chris Freitag (35:49)
Yeah, that's a really good point. Because that's the main camera, right? And the

Tom Anderson (35:54)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Freitag (35:54)
main camera is like, yeah, I don't know. I don't want to get into those theories. But man,

Tom Anderson (36:00)
Ha ha ha.

Chris Freitag (36:02)
you know, the same with my watch, like, I needed to upgrade my watch simply because I was not getting a full day of battery.

Tom Anderson (36:09)
No, I was hitting too.

Jeff Battersby (36:10)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Freitag (36:11)
So I needed that upgrade. But I was frustrated to find out that the original would not be getting

I'm watchOS 27 and I thought, man, that's only four years. Like what happened to the five years cycle that I think we've become accustomed to with computers. I don't know.

Tom Anderson (36:33)
Yeah. And

Chris Freitag (36:35)
It's scary a little bit.

Tom Anderson (36:37)
Yeah, and I don't know about your Ultra One, but mine with even with Watch OS twenty six was struggling. Like the battery I was having it's a similar situation. It was starting to you'd put it on the charger, you know, in the evening and sometimes it'd be ten percent. I mean, geez. but just the interface using it day to day, I'd get lots of stutters, delays. So it was struggling. with

Chris Freitag (36:59)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (36:59)
twenty six. Twenty seven was supposed to be optimized, so I was optimistic that I could maybe get by another year.

And my and my my battery

Chris Freitag (37:07)
That's what I was hoping. One more year.

Tom Anderson (37:10)
yeah, my battery health was like a eighty two percent. So I was like, man, and I had Apple Care on it. So I like, well if it just drops down to seventy nine, I can get the battery replaced, get the optimizations from twenty six, but that that didn't happen. Now part of what I've read on some of that is the new Siri needed the additional RAM that's in the four and the twelve series.

I could see that, but at the same time it's like, Well, I could've kept old Siri and been okay. I don't use it a ton on my watch to do anything really complicated, just set reminders and put stuff on the groceries list basically.

Chris Freitag (37:43)
Yep. Yeah, set a timer. That's my Siri interaction

on my watch.

Jeff Battersby (37:52)
Bad.

Tom Anderson (37:52)
Yeah, expensive timer we have.

Jeff Battersby (37:55)
Yeah, well

I'm still waiting for a ring, boys. That's that's kinda where

Tom Anderson (38:01)
Yep.

Jeff Battersby (38:02)
I don't I don't use the watch for I mean I do send messages.

Tom Anderson (38:07)
Yeah. Well I'm gonna ask you about video here in a second.

Chris Freitag (38:11)
Okay.

Tom Anderson (38:11)
before we get to that, so you know, we've been talking about apture and you know, the how nice that has been for someone who's listening that is more of a hobbyist photographer, maybe just taking pictures at parties, you know, events, holidays, things like that. What benefit do you think they'll see from this? I mean, 'cause obviously the camera ab automatically is gonna do all of the work for them, but

Chris Freitag (38:37)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (38:37)
What do you think they'll benefit from?

Chris Freitag (38:39)
Well, I think they'll get the benefit from the auto. You know, you don't have to take control of the aperture at all. So in typical Apple fashion, they've made this for regular everyday people. So a person at a party wants to take a photo of a bunch of their friends and it's a well lit room. You know, Apple's iPhone will figure out that there's a lot of faces in the photo and it'll probably just default to F4 for you. And F4 will give you a better photo of the whole scene.

where you're in that exact same party and it's dark and you're trying to take a photo of someone, it will automatically adjust to 1.48, which you didn't have before. And you'll be able to get more detail without all the digital noise that comes from your iPhone 17 or prior. So that's really how the aperture matters to just your regular everyday person who just wants a phone to take, you know, memories. It'll just give you

better output of those photos.

Tom Anderson (39:43)
Okay, cool. So if the

Jeff Battersby (39:44)
Which is to say it's

a really good point and shoot camera. You know.

Chris Freitag (39:46)
Yes, it's a great

point and shoot.

Tom Anderson (39:47)
Yep.

Yep. Yeah. So they'll get the benefit in environments that were a little tougher before that maybe it struggled a little bit with. It'll handle those a little more gracefully and better output.

Chris Freitag (39:58)
Right, right.

Tom Anderson (39:59)
Got it. Okay.

Jeff Battersby (40:00)
Yeah, one of the things I noticed the other day at the Denver airport, as it happens, right near neck of the woods. I should have called you. We had a four hour layover, we could've hung out.

Tom Anderson (40:09)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (40:10)
we th the it took a picture of my wife and I, with the f the you know, the selfie camera, and it

Chris Freitag (40:19)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Battersby (40:20)
I forgot that there's the feature that it will it will go more wide angle if it sees more people in the photo.

And I was kinda tripped out by it at first. It's like, wait, what's this thing doing? But

Chris Freitag (40:32)
Right.

Jeff Battersby (40:33)
that features that feature's really kinda nice 'cause it got the two of us in that photograph. we were

Chris Freitag (40:38)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (40:39)
s standing in the you know, in the basically the food court of the of the terminal we were in. I can't even remember. I think we're terminal B. which by the way, i

It total side note, but man, i the the bathrooms in Terminal B pretty dingy, dude. It smell

Tom Anderson (41:00)
Ha ha.

Chris Freitag (41:00)
Ha

Jeff Battersby (41:01)
smells like like everybody's peeing on the floor there. That's all I gotta say. It was not a Yeah, that's right.

Tom Anderson (41:07)
like parking garages. Good. Yeah.

Chris Freitag (41:09)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (41:09)
It smells like a parking garage or like you're at the ballpark. You know, it was not

Tom Anderson (41:13)
Ha ha.

Jeff Battersby (41:14)
a not a not a good look. But that's a total side note. so there's you know there's a

nice really s good light in that in that airport. We were there midday, so you know, they have kind of a a skylight

Chris Freitag (41:26)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (41:27)
that's over that center area. And so we we caught a picture of the of the two of this. That's such a great feature. You know, it's really

Chris Freitag (41:35)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (41:36)
n and the fact that it's you know it's not requiring you the user to kinda go, wait, I need wide angle lens to be able to get everything I want to get. I really liked it and had completely forgotten about it.

So that was that's a nice little feature. And that is a feature I think of was a feature in the seventeen and was it a feature, Tom, in the sixteen?

Chris Freitag (41:58)
It

was in the 17s.

Tom Anderson (41:59)
Think they seventeen.

Chris Freitag (42:00)
Yeah, but it was also

Jeff Battersby (42:01)
In the seventy.

Chris Freitag (42:02)
in the like, base 17. Like all the 17s had it.

Jeff Battersby (42:06)
Right.

Yeah. It's a really, really nice feature. I pleased with it. So

Chris Freitag (42:10)
Yeah, I actually hope that's

the future of photography, to be honest with you. A square

Jeff Battersby (42:16)
Really?

Chris Freitag (42:16)
sensor matters in so many ways because you don't have to worry about what direction you're holding the camera. So even a regular big camera, you want it to be up and down portrait, you have to turn the camera physically to take that shot. With a square sensor, you would never have to do that.

You could literally take any photo

Jeff Battersby (42:38)
Right, you can do it anyway you want.

Chris Freitag (42:40)
anytime and decide later if you want it to be a portrait or a landscape.

Jeff Battersby (42:44)
Interesting. Yeah.

Tom Anderson (42:44)
Yeah, that'd be nice.

Yep. All right. Well let's talk for a minute before we wrap up because we're getting close to time, but so we've talked about photography in general. and we did ask in the show notes here about video to see if had any thoughts on the new camera system with video performance and it sounds like you may have done some of that.

Chris Freitag (43:07)
Yep. I did a video a couple of videos ago on my YouTube channel about I had too much stuff. just, I

Tom Anderson (43:15)
Yeah.

Chris Freitag (43:16)
had, I really lost the plot with the YouTube because everything was like, Ooh, this will make things easier. This will make things easier. And before I knew what happened,

Jeff Battersby (43:23)
Yeah.

Chris Freitag (43:23)
I had just, I had so much crap. So I, I pared down. I got rid of a bunch of stuff. I sold a bunch of stuff and my iPhone is filling the gap of where, essentially a professional camera.

was doing video and the iPhone 18 pro specifically just gives me a better opportunity to give me a little bit of separation between me and my background. And that does help. And it doesn't have to be that digital weird look, the cinematic look that

Jeff Battersby (43:54)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Freitag (43:54)
everybody kind of knows there's something wrong with it. There's a little halo around the human that that's

Jeff Battersby (43:59)
Ha

Chris Freitag (44:00)
not there with the aperture at 1.48. So

I've been using the Black Camera Magic app and I, the Black Magic camera.

Jeff Battersby (44:10)
Yeah. I knew what you meant.

Chris Freitag (44:12)
I just cannot believe that that is free. Like that app is unbelievable. You know, like it does everything. So I use my watch with that app and I can frame myself. I can make adjustments and I can hit record and record myself using my back camera.

And it's a great B cam for me. So I have my main camera and my iPhone and it's been fantastic. So it's filled in the gap that I had with a much more expensive camera that was heavier and I had to have lenses and all that. It's in my pocket all the time now.

Jeff Battersby (44:59)
black magic camera. I had that on my phone a while ago and I think I took it off, so I might give that a

Chris Freitag (45:07)
Yeah, it's just from a from a professional standpoint, like you can record in open gate. So even though the sensor on the back isn't square like the one on the front, it is still four by three. And you can record with the Blackmagic camera app. You can record at that full four three, which allows you to reframe your video for vertical or horizontal very easily.

Jeff Battersby (45:33)
Mm.

Chris Freitag (45:34)
you can record in ProRes. Like it's just so great.

Tom Anderson (45:38)
Ha ha.

Chris Freitag (45:38)
I can't say enough good things about it. Like, I don't know how DaVinci is getting, or Blackmagic is getting away with their price points on this software, free for the camera app and 299 for the unlocked version of their desktop app. But you can still do so much in the free version. Like it's amazing that they're using this to drive people toward their hardware.

I think that's such a great business model.

Jeff Battersby (46:06)
Really interesting. Just

Chris Freitag (46:08)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (46:08)
downloaded it. I'll have to have a look at this again. Really

Chris Freitag (46:12)
You

Tom Anderson (46:13)
Every time Chris comes on, Jeff picks up new stuff to do. At least this one's free.

Jeff Battersby (46:15)
Right, it's right. It did y Chris, you changed my life every time I

Chris Freitag (46:16)
You

Yeah, it's free. It's it's free.

Jeff Battersby (46:21)
Yeah, right. The last one wasn't. Yeah.

Woohoo! And really free.

Chris Freitag (46:27)
Yeah,

yeah, there's nothing behind a paywall.

Jeff Battersby (46:31)
Love it. Any last words for us about photography on the iPhone?

Chris Freitag (46:38)
not really. My, my only complaint about the 17 and the 18 here is this aluminum. I can't grip it. So I have to have a case. the,

Jeff Battersby (46:48)
Yeah.

Chris Freitag (46:49)
mean, I, I, I appreciate what aluminum affords us, which is better battery life, better heat performance, you know, because it's not trapping in the heat. I get all of that, but man, is it slick? that's my only, my only gripe, but otherwise I'm, I'm actually really pleased.

Jeff Battersby (47:03)
Even even with the matte finish.

Chris Freitag (47:07)
What's that?

Jeff Battersby (47:08)
Even with the matte finish, you're finding that it's

Chris Freitag (47:10)
Yeah, it's

still that really slippery aluminum on the edges. So it's just harder to hold. But yeah.

Tom Anderson (47:19)
And there's something about this particular design that I wasn't really it's okay, but it's not one like I look at and I go, Wow, this is really nice. You know, they it was better

Chris Freitag (47:29)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (47:30)
on the eighteen because that kind of two tone colors stuff they were doing with the

Chris Freitag (47:36)
Right.

Tom Anderson (47:37)
piece just below the camera section there. I forget what they call that, where they put all the processing stuff, but the plateau. now that's more subtle and I think that looks a little bit better, but

Even still I'm like, it's it's not their I don't think feel like it's their best work. Like I took my iPhone ten out a couple of weeks ago and when I just picked I was like, Man, this was so great. I mean it was

Chris Freitag (48:00)
Yeah, so great.

Jeff Battersby (48:00)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (48:01)
it is so good. and I'm hoping to get kind of the same experience with the duo when it comes in, but we'll see. I mean it it

Chris Freitag (48:09)
I'm sure you will. I'm

Jeff Battersby (48:10)
Yeah, I think

Chris Freitag (48:10)
actually

positive of that. It's yeah.

Tom Anderson (48:12)
Yeah. It looks amazing.

Like just the build and the the hinge quality and everything and Apple's hinges, when you think about it with MacBooks and the studio display and everything have always been been really good. Now if you go back far enough, like into the nineties, they had some really bad hinges, but that's long time ago. Yeah, completely different time.

Chris Freitag (48:30)
That was a different time.

Tom Anderson (48:35)
and I but anyhow.

Chris Freitag (48:38)
Yeah. Yeah. mean, I wasn't expecting to get it. I got it. It was free. So that really helped me.

Jeff Battersby (48:44)
Yeah, there you go.

Chris Freitag (48:46)
But now that I have it in my hands, I love it. There is a significant difference in the camera from the 17 Pro, which is an unfortunate thing to say for anyone with 17 Pro. Just hold the line. The 20 is going to be awesome.

Tom Anderson (49:02)
Bet it is, yeah. I know.

Jeff Battersby (49:06)
Well, Chris, we

really appreciate you taking the time to come on with us this morning. Where can people find you?

Chris Freitag (49:13)
Yeah, my YouTube channel, youtube.com at Chris Freitag and chrisfreitag.com is my photography website.

Jeff Battersby (49:23)
And just so anybody you know, who has not seen Chris's work, whether

it's his videos or any of that, fantastic. I follow Chris on threads and and d every time he posts something new.

Really, really good work, a lot of fun to see. And you're just a good guy, Chris. It's like your YouTube channel really is a lot of fun to watch and it's it's very low key but great info. Always, always great info. So we appreciate you coming on. as a reminder, show artwork, Russell Martin, Randall Martin, good God. Randall

Tom Anderson (50:07)
Absolutely.

Jeff Battersby (50:09)
Martin Yeah, we're just making making people up.

Randall Martin Design, our show music psychokinetics in Celsius 7. And we posted a few episodes back, new video of kind of older music for Cal Rissian and for Celsius 7. And it's a little filthy, but really good. So we

Tom Anderson (50:30)
Ha ha.

Jeff Battersby (50:31)
really encou really encourage you to have have a look at that. Tom Anderson, where can we find you?

Tom Anderson (50:38)
you can find me on threads at Tom Anderson and also at tomfanderson.com.

Jeff Battersby (50:43)
Yep, and I'm on threads at Reyes Point. Post rarely. spend too much time on there as it is. So and and got rid of the app on my phone thinking that would be a reasonable thing to do, and I'm still doing the web version all the time, so I should probably just put this stupid app back on my phone. and as always, and this is kind of late in the game, but we really are grateful for everybody that comes and listens to this. We are it's gonna sound dirty, but it's not.

We're a slow grower. you know, we're slowly moving in the in the right direction. And we really appreciate that. A lot of people listening to us. I just found out, and this is a funny thing, my family thought I wasn't recording the podcast anymore because I had not been sending them episodes. It's like, wait, you guys didn't subscribe

Chris Freitag (51:34)
haha

Tom Anderson (51:34)
Ha ha ha.

Jeff Battersby (51:36)
and just listen? I have to send you an episode to get you to listen to it.

So you know, tell your friends and neighbors to subscribe and this includes my lovely family who I adore, but goodness gracious.

Tom Anderson (51:49)
Or we can just add them to

Jeff's group chat and you can send everybody the links.

Jeff Battersby (51:54)
Y I well, there is a family group chat and I can send everybody the links, right? So anyway.

Tom Anderson (51:57)
Yeah. So anybody,

I'll I'll send you some randos and you can add them to the group chat. Just send them

Chris Freitag (52:01)
Hahaha.

Tom Anderson (52:02)
the links. Yeah. Jeff's RSS service.

Jeff Battersby (52:02)
great, good. Right, that's that's fine. That'll just

arms. Anyway, thanks for showing up. we really appreciate you and we look forward to talking to you next week or in two weeks as well. By that time there'll be new stuff

Tom Anderson (52:18)
So thanks with us, Chris.

Jeff Battersby (52:20)
and Tom might have junk.

Chris Freitag (52:23)
All right, thanks for having me.

Tom Anderson (52:24)
Yeah,

thank you, Chris. Appreciate it. Jeff, thank

you, sir. Thank you for your courage, as we've started to say here. Okay.

Jeff Battersby (52:30)
Yeah yeah. Thank you for my

courage and from recording from the bathroom.

Tom Anderson (52:34)
That's right. You're a trooper. All right. Thanks everybody. We'll talk to you again in a couple of weeks.

Jeff Battersby (52:38)
See ya.