Tom Anderson (00:07)
This is basic AF episode one hundred.

Jeff Battersby (00:10)
100 bands, we got 100 bands.

Tom Anderson (00:14)
I don't know what you're saying, but that's okay. Show notes can be found at basicafshow.com.

Jeff Battersby (00:16)
It's okay. Let me, let me...

Tom Anderson (00:21)
That is my eternal co-host, Jeff Battersby. Hello, Jeff.

Jeff Battersby (00:24)
How you doing Tommy?

Tom Anderson (00:25)
I am Tom Anderson. I'm doing great. And we're thrilled to have joining us today once again, Riley Hill. Welcome back, Riley.

Riley Hill (00:34)
Gentlemen, hello.

Tom Anderson (00:36)
How you been?

Riley Hill (00:38)
I'm good. I'm good. I've been good. A lot of it's been a busy month and a half here, let me tell ya. don't get me started.

Tom Anderson (00:44)
An expensive it's been an expensive autumn.

Yeah. So we'll talk about all

Jeff Battersby (00:51)
Hasn't it though?

Tom Anderson (00:52)
of that. Jeff, do you spend much? You bought a new phone, right? And that that was it, right? Okay.

Jeff Battersby (00:56)
That was it, Yep, that's

it. I had previously gotten one of the M5 MacBook Airs, sold my MacBook Pro, my M2 MacBook Pro, and uh pleased, super pleased with it. That's really all I needed, and I only needed a MacBook Air, but, um so yeah, doing great, really happy with it. m So, all

Tom Anderson (01:24)
Nice.

Jeff Battersby (01:24)
cool, all good.

Tom Anderson (01:25)
Yeah, you know, I was thinking yesterday that it's been a stretch of really good stuff from Apple this fall.

Jeff Battersby (01:34)
Mm-hmm.

Tom Anderson (01:35)
Like and we're gonna talk about the iPhone Duo today uh in great detail, but the Ultra 4 that I bought's been fantastic. I think the software upgrades, by and large, have been good. Um

Jeff Battersby (01:45)
Solid. Yeah.

Tom Anderson (01:47)
Siri for me has been pretty good overall. I know that doesn't seem

to be the case for everyone. And I'm not really sure why it's so different for people. Riley, how's Siri been for you, the new Siri?

Riley Hill (02:03)
Getting better. yeah, it's been mixed.

Jeff Battersby (02:04)
uh That was a little equivocated.

Tom Anderson (02:07)
Ha ha

Riley Hill (02:09)
It but it's it's getting better, um overall. I mean it's I y during the betas especially, I guess it's still in beta, but I was getting a lot of just random like you'd be halfway through a conversation and it's like, I can't connect and it won't

Tom Anderson (02:22)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (02:23)
re you know, be able to continue the conversation. Stuff like that, but that's been happening less and less, so feel feel okay about it.

Tom Anderson (02:30)
Yeah.

Good. All right. so yeah, overall, I think they're doing good work. Of course, we're not talking about them today, but they have since our last episode released a new iPad mini, which Riley's picked up, so we may have him back talk about that at some point. Um MacBook Pro got an update uh a little bit lighter, which I think is

a plus. They didn't take any ports off, which is a bigger plus. Um, added OLED to it, which is a big plus,

and then they slapped some touch on it,

Jeff Battersby (03:04)
Yep. Nope.

Tom Anderson (03:06)
which I'm indifferent about. So

Jeff Battersby (03:09)
I

don't really don't care about touch on the back, but whatever. Yeah, I don't know. And as Ben Young Savage said, doesn't fold over, so useless to him. It's touch on the screen.

Tom Anderson (03:22)
Yeah, 'cause he was

was hoping for something he could draw on. Right? So it'd be kinda like a flip

Jeff Battersby (03:27)
Yeah, absolutely, that he could flip over and do that.

Tom Anderson (03:29)
it over, kinda like one of those was it the well, there've been a few of the PCs, touch PCs that have been like that, but we're not there yet. Maybe maybe some point they'll say that

Jeff Battersby (03:35)
Yeah. Nope. Nope, Yeah.

Tom Anderson (03:39)
that's what the iPad's for, get that. Yeah. It's a pretty good one too.

Riley Hill (03:40)
I feel like there's a product for that, but

Jeff Battersby (03:43)
Yeah, great use case. Yeah.

Tom Anderson (03:48)
Yep.

so today, uh as promised in the last episode where I just received uh my iPhone duo, uh we have uh asked Riley to come on because he is in possession of an iPhone duo as well. Got his day one, got my day two. So we've had a couple of weeks with them, and so now that we've lived with it for a bit, I've been wearing Jeff out and messages with thoughts and comments and sharing my joy and

Jeff Battersby (04:14)
Tempting me is what you're trying to do

Tom Anderson (04:16)
he's actually been

very receptive and I think is being tempted a little bit. Um

Jeff Battersby (04:21)
Yeah,

not gonna buy one, but tempted.

Tom Anderson (04:23)
Right.

Riley Hill (04:23)
Ha ha ha.

Tom Anderson (04:23)
Well

eventually you end up maybe at the store and can forward it a bit.

Jeff Battersby (04:26)
Yeah, yeah.

Tom Anderson (04:28)
So wanna dig into it. Um why don't

Jeff Battersby (04:31)
And particularly

want to get into it with Riley

Tom Anderson (04:34)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Battersby (04:35)
as it relates to, uh know, Riley, for those of you that have not heard him on here before, is a slate pad uh on all the platforms and does uh all of his work, for the most part, on iPads, uh which, you know, tip of the hat, because I couldn't do it, but...

Riley Hill (04:58)
Ha ha ha

Jeff Battersby (05:00)
But you definitely are, and now you've got a phone that turns into essentially an iPad Mini if you wanted to. So definitely interested to hear how that's playing out for you and what your thoughts are. Because of all the people we talk with, you're the deepest into the pad universe.

Riley Hill (05:24)
I feel so honored.

Jeff Battersby (05:25)
uh

Tom Anderson (05:25)
Ha ha

Jeff Battersby (05:26)
You should, you're on our 100th episode.

Riley Hill (05:29)
I I it's extra honored today. This is a g it's gonna be good day.

Jeff Battersby (05:31)
Right, right. And

so we're

Tom Anderson (05:33)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Battersby (05:33)
going to send you a sparkly star in the mail and you can wear it wherever you go.

Tom Anderson (05:39)
boy.

Jeff Battersby (05:44)
Anyway, so we've had Tom's first impressions. We got that in the last episode. Why don't you tell us uh what, right out of the box, what your first impressions of the duo are slash were.

Riley Hill (05:59)
Yeah.

Um I feel like it's maybe pretty universal to say that first impressions were a bit of surprise at how heavy it is. Um, especially coming from the iPhone Air slash, you know, the five iPad Pro, which has really been my daily driver the past year. Um, you know, this feels really dense. Um

Which, you know, I'm a I'm a thinner, lighter guy, so that isn't great, but it's not a deal breaker, obviously. Cameras only you can only see so far up, so that's we'll we'll pretend

Jeff Battersby (06:29)
You are looking pretty svelte, eh

Tom Anderson (06:31)
Ha ha ha.

Riley Hill (06:36)
that's true. Um so that was my first impression. It's just like surprised at how heavy it was. Um but then you know, opening it the th

you know, it's approaching I think it's thinner than the iPhone Air, right? So, um that feels pretty good. The uh titanium edges, I think they're titanium. Um definitely give gave it that premium feel, um, just when you're holding it. That that helps with perception, um, all over. And then um you know, I I've

Become the thing I hate. You know, I've I've kind of railed on I feel like from a product design perspective, like these folding phones with these phone size outer screens are silly 'cause it's like, why would you make it so easy not to use the folding phone? Like, to me, I I don't know, I naively I I I get it, but it's like the whole point of the folding phone is to unfold it. So like you should be driving people to unfold it, not not unfold it, right? And that's that's always bugged me a little bit, but

This outer screen I do

Jeff Battersby (07:42)
And did you have a Samsung phone? Did you play with one of those for a minute?

Riley Hill (07:45)
have one of those. It's a work phone. Um that I definitely needed as someone who works from home. but

Tom Anderson (07:52)
Ha ha ha.

Riley Hill (07:53)
I also have the Surface Duo, Microsoft's first Surface Duo, and that had no outer screen. You had to unfold it for everything, and that to me

makes more sense from a product design perspective. All that being said, I've fallen in love with the outer screen on the duo. Like it's very charming to use. Um and I am becoming one of those people.

Jeff Battersby (08:12)
Why do you say that? is

it about it that makes it charming?

Riley Hill (08:17)
You know, I I think it's that it's so wide. Um, I remember LG back in the day had I wanna say it was the G three or something like that, but they they made a one off like wide phone like this, standard phone, and I something about it always appealed to me. Um, and so this is kinda the same thing. I am one of those people who would love a next generation iPhone Air that was just the outer screen. I don't think it'll happen, but um

I I appreciate, you know, as an iPad person, like a smaller screen in my pocket is always to me makes more sense 'cause I have a bigger screen generally with me all the time.

Jeff Battersby (08:56)
Mm-hmm. Okay. Onward.

Riley Hill (09:01)
Yes.

Tom Anderson (09:03)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (09:04)
All right. So.

Tom Anderson (09:06)
No, I

I tend to agree on the the front display. Um and it almost has a I wasn't a BlackBerry fan back in the day 'cause I just I didn't feel they were very good for much more than email messaging. Uh, but it kinda has that feel because they were short compared to well, the original iPhone was short too. They've gotten kind of silly um recently with the the bigger screens, but uh it kind of has that feel when it's closed. let me ask you this.

I have found on the front display that I'm more accurate with typing. And I don't it could be placebo, maybe it's not, but uh there's a little more width there than on the the standard, you know, slab phone. Uh have have you noticed that at all or is it about the same for you?

Riley Hill (09:57)
Um I think I would say I'm a little more accurate only because like on my air, I would try to use it one handed sometimes. And that's not really a one handed phone either. But this

Tom Anderson (10:10)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (10:11)
is definitely not a one handed phone. And so I'm always typing with two hands on this thing, and so just by doing that I think I'm more accurate. Um 'cause I I can't reach the side of the phone. Yeah.

Tom Anderson (10:19)
Yeah, it's definitely not Yeah,

it's and it's also not a one hander for me because I'm terrified I'm gonna drop it. So Especially like the

Jeff Battersby (10:26)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (10:28)
Yes.

Tom Anderson (10:29)
first couple of days. I was like, ooh, because I still haven't put a case on. Have you put a case on yours?

Riley Hill (10:34)
Um I ha I I I have I bought Apple's expensive ke kickstand case. I use it the only time I use it so far is when I walk the dog at night because I need use my phone as a flashlight. Um 'cause

Tom Anderson (10:52)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (10:53)
it's dark and that's the only time I use it. But you know, this phone is thick enough and it doesn't need any help being any thicker, so I

Cases are cases are hard for me with this thing.

Tom Anderson (11:06)
Yeah, and I have not really still seen one that I like. Like my wife and I got Apple's iPhone duo case, not the folio, so the polycarbonate or whatever it is. Uh she has hers on, uh and she doesn't mind it. Um and I've got the one that's in the sand color and it's still in the box. I haven't put it on yet. And you know, I don't mind the back piece, but on the front display.

The little strip that runs along, it just looks so cheap to me. It just doesn't look right. I haven't seen it, and that's not just

Riley Hill (11:38)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (11:40)
Apples, like every one that I've seen, because they all have to be that way because you can't cover up the back. When it's open, the back is the front display. And so you have to go just around the perimeter of the phone. And I just don't think any of them look really all that great. Now I had the bullstrap leather case on my 17 or 16 Pro Max and I like that a lot. Jeff recommended that. He had that one at 1.2.

Jeff Battersby (12:02)
Yep.

Tom Anderson (12:03)
And they've got one coming out for the duo and I'm might pick that up, at least try it. But it's gonna have the same thing. Like it's gonna have that thin strip along the edge. and so I I don't know. So I've been going caseless. I'm like, well, Apple Care will be my case, just in case. And uh

Jeff Battersby (12:17)
Hehehehehe

Tom Anderson (12:20)
and been happy with it so far that way.

Jeff Battersby (12:26)
No, no, no, I'm a, so uh when I was in the 15, I had the Pro Max because the camera was better. ah When I went to the 18, uh I jumped back down to just the Pro. And let me just tell you, I have dropped this phone more times than I've dropped any phone I've ever owned. It's crazy. Like, I don't know what it is about it. um It's super slippery is one thing.

You know, it's like, and so it slips off of every surface that you put it on, unless it's a completely flat surface. But I've dropped to the point where I've got a nick in it, which now I'm just gonna kind of lean into that. It's like, okay, fine. Gonna make it look like rugged. Yeah, there you go. That's exactly the word.

Tom Anderson (13:12)
Rugged. Yeah. Yeah. eh

Jeff Battersby (13:17)
But I'm surprised at how much, because other.

The only reason that I put a case on uh my 15 was uh because when we were recording, when I put it on the little magnet thing, it would always tilt. And it doesn't, you know, this doesn't do that. This one's perfectly balanced so it can just sit on there. So it's like, okay, I don't need a case. I don't know, I might need a case. Because...

I might have to do something that lets me do that, but I love the color of this and I love the feel of it in my hand and I kinda, like you said about the duo, I don't wanna add any heft to it. I just kinda like it the way it is.

Tom Anderson (14:01)
Yeah. And I had the sixteen Pro Max and had already decided uh had I not gotten the duo I was gonna go back just to the regular Pro as well 'cause I was tired of it being so tall. and it's especially like just carrying it around in your pocket, it's like it's just seems to always be in the way. Um so so I and I think that's why I didn't notice the weight difference as much because it's not much heavier than the sixteen.

sixteen ProBax, it was four grams or something like that. Um, but when it's closed, it's definitely dense, as you said. Um, but as you open it up, it it's it's an interesting dynamic as when you open it up as the weight disperses more then it feels light. It's like it's it's an interesting uh experience.

Jeff Battersby (14:52)
So as a phone, what's your general feeling? How does it rate as a phone for you?

Riley Hill (15:03)
I think it it rate rates pretty well. I mean so in the literal sense, like I mean the fact that I've been bringing an iPad Pro with me and not a phone tells you how many phone calls I get. Which is next to none, right? So like I'm not yeah, I just

Jeff Battersby (15:19)
You and Tom. Tom doesn't get any phone calls

either.

Riley Hill (15:22)
I don't get many phone calls. Um, so um so it feels just as good as a phone as, you know, the the air or or any of the other iPhones have the um in terms of like using it as a device out in the world, right? Um I don't have I'm weirdly and this is of course the social media effect just magnifying everything, but like

I'm fine. Like on the on the outer screen, pretty much every app I use is fine. Even if it's not optimized, like they work well enough that it's like I don't care that they're not perfect, you know. I I don't I'm seeing people like returning them 'cause like, every app is an optimized so I'm gonna return the phone. It's like it's been two weeks. Like a and y and again there's been no app, like I haven't been able to do what I needed to do, you know, on this on this screen, so um I'm

But maybe I'm just I don't know. Maybe it's just getting older. It's like I I it's hard to get ex as excited about some of this stuff as I used to. Like that it's not perfect, you know, it's like it's f it's fine. Like it's been doing everything

Jeff Battersby (16:27)
You

Riley Hill (16:28)
fine for me. Like I just don't care.

Tom Anderson (16:31)
Yeah. And I I wonder how much of it too is because I know you're a m even more of an iPad user than I am and I use mine a good bit. And we've had some of those experiences along the way anyway. So we're is what it is, 'cause like some of the iPhone apps on iPad, remember when the screen sizes would change and like it would

It it looked exactly like it does on the duo when they're not optimized. You get the letter boxing around the edges and you could hit the expand button and it would fill the screen, but then it looked like you know, you were in boomer mode and all the buttons were big and like you couldn't see or something. And so I was like which I'm gonna be honest with you

Jeff Battersby (17:02)
Boomer mode. uh

Riley Hill (17:04)
Mm-hmm.

Tom Anderson (17:09)
guys, at my age now, that's been not so bad. So I kinda enjoyed that a little bit.

Riley Hill (17:12)
Ha ha ha.

Tom Anderson (17:14)
Um and so I think that might factor into it too, but uh the app thing, I mean, Apple just announced

The other day, yesterday, day before, a hundred thousand apps have been updated for the duo so far. Um, some interesting ones too, like Taco Bell and Domino's and stuff like that.

Jeff Battersby (17:33)
all the really important ones.

Tom Anderson (17:35)
Which is funny. And then you um and so I I've got a list there in the note if we want to talk about it later, like which apps we're kinda waiting on. But um phone wise, for me it's been okay too. I actually did get a phone call this week, Jeff. Thought you'd be impressed. My brother

Riley Hill (17:48)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (17:49)
in law called, we talked for fifty minutes, work rate. Um

Jeff Battersby (17:52)
What?

Jeez. You don't even talk

Tom Anderson (17:52)
Yeah, I know. Uh

Jeff Battersby (17:55)
to me for that.

Riley Hill (17:56)
Ha ha ha.

Tom Anderson (17:57)
Gonna talk

to you probably for an hour and a half today. What are you talking about?

Jeff Battersby (18:04)
Yeah,

Riley Hill (18:04)
Um

yeah.

Jeff Battersby (18:07)
it's interesting how little and I think that that's true of like I still use a phone as a phone. Like I talk to people all the time. I to my mom, know, FaceTime. You guys FaceTime with him? No. Okay. So you do use FaceTime. Wow. Riley's just like giving me the head wag. uh Nothing. Wow.

Riley Hill (18:28)
My my parent my parents are twenty

minutes away, so if they're s yeah, I just go over there.

Jeff Battersby (18:31)
Okay, so you can see him you drive by yeah

Tom Anderson (18:33)
Yeah, he just goes over. Sees

Jeff Battersby (18:34)
mine are three three thousand miles away, so That's

that that's the way I get to that's the way I get to see them and most of my family is that far away so uh Yes, so I do I do use my phone as a phone I'm also older than both of you some cases maybe by a factor of two um

So, you know, it's uh the phone is something that I use and I will end up using, think, uh for for quite some time. You know, that is definitely a thing that I uh that for me is still a feature. uh So. You just got Riley speaking, that's the you I'm speaking to. uh You just got uh one of the new iPad many.

and you've got a iPhone Duo that opens up to about the same size as the new iPad Mini. What's the difference between the two in terms of like how much more space you get on that Mini?

Riley Hill (19:45)
You know, if I were better at math I could tell you the percentage. But it 'cause it's like s seven six? Yeah, it's like

Tom Anderson (19:50)
I think it's uh inch and a quarter, maybe. Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (19:48)
I don't need the math part. Yeah, I don't want that either.

Riley Hill (19:53)
seven point six versus eight point five or something. I don't know.

Jeff Battersby (19:56)
Okay,

so it's very, very close.

Riley Hill (19:58)
It's close. Um, the difference though, um and I am slowly working on an iPhone duo review, um, but the difference is it literally it's it's iPad O S. Um 'cause you know, you you open the duo, at least for me, and still I'm still training myself that this thing isn't an iPad because when when you have that size you wanna use it like an iPad. And for some people

Jeff Battersby (20:23)
huh.

Riley Hill (20:23)
that is literally just watching video or something. Or drawing and procreate

And that's fine, but if you want to get into like the heavier multitasking or um you're using an app like Freeform and you're expecting the app to look one way and it looks a different way because sidebars are like weird on this thing. Um it it's just kind of disorienting. So

Jeff Battersby (20:46)
Okay.

Riley Hill (20:47)
um there's still, you know, even though iPad OS is iOS, um that that is the big difference is like

Weirdly enough to say that I feel more productive on an iPad than the

the phone, you know.

Jeff Battersby (21:01)
Okay. Okay. So are you,

are you trying to use the duo as an iPad or like you use an iPad and, and is it an issue that

Riley Hill (21:09)
I've the first couple days.

Jeff Battersby (21:11)
apps haven't been released yet or haven't been updated or is it literally the fact that you're, you're dealing with a duo version of iOS as opposed to a iPad OS?

Riley Hill (21:24)
So for me, and kinda driven by, you know, iPad OS twenty six and those changes, which again, I don't think was on I don't think that was on accident, right? They're pushing Apple's pushing the iPad towards more of that laptopy space. So like

Jeff Battersby (21:40)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (21:41)
I'm like now, like I I I can see a future, right, where it's like even though I just bought this mini, but it's like

The smaller iPad stuff is done by the Duo. And then the bigger iPad, hopefully one day like a fifteen inch iPad Pro, you know, it moves more into that laptop space for some people, for me. Like right, so it's kinda pushing I feel like Apple's pushing the iPad to be more of a productivity device because the Duo um

can handle kind of more of that content consumption on a large screen stuff. So my 13 inch pro um almost never comes out of the magic keyboard now. Like it's basically a laptop. Um and so that's kinda how I s I see that divide eventually eventually working out.

Jeff Battersby (22:28)
Okay. So are you doing any actual? Well, let me ask you this. iPad mini, do you do work on the iPad mini or no?

Riley Hill (22:37)
Um technically yes. Depending on your definition of or I mean is is

content creation when you're not the like part-time content creation work, sure. Um

Jeff Battersby (22:51)
Okay.

Riley Hill (22:51)
from that perspective, yes. And that's only because and if I've done this right, the video will be out by the time this goes up. Um the Mini 8 has extended display support. So I can plug this into my monitor, like mouse and keyboard, and go on final cut, PixelMeter Pro, stuff like that. Like it's

Jeff Battersby (23:08)
Okay.

Riley Hill (23:09)
way more productive now than it used to be. So short answer yes.

Jeff Battersby (23:14)
Okay. And the iPhone Duo.

Riley Hill (23:21)
Um not really. Like I've tried writing a little bit on this thing. Um but I think I've just become so used to like the the windowing that it f even just doing split view, like I tried to have like an outline on one side and then my actual document on the other. Um it didn't feel quite right to me. Um but that

you know, might just take some time. Like it it's just I'm so used to the iPad way of doing things, I might have to unlearn that a bit. Um what I would like to see, and I'm assuming is going to happen one day, is an iPhone version of Final Cut. And some kind of

syncing

I think um Da Vinci and I think Adobe have like cloud solutions for your project like something like that I could see really leveraging the inner display on the duo to just you know edit when I have a few seconds here or there. But uh in terms of yeah outside of terms of writing um haven't done a ton just I don't I don't carry I don't know. Yeah, I'll just leave it at that. Not a ton.

Jeff Battersby (24:26)
Okay,

Apple pencil using Apple pencil with the with the phone.

Riley Hill (24:32)
It is fun to do, but not having the I think it kinda connects to the hinge unofficially, but it doesn't really connect. Like I need it to c connect to the phone.

Tom Anderson (24:43)
Right.

Riley Hill (24:44)
Physically. I would like to see that.

Tom Anderson (24:48)
Yeah, and I've been a little paranoid with the pencil, like 'cause with an iPad I just put it down, put my hand on right. 'Cause I mean a thirteen inch iPad is kinda silly to keep your hand up in the air and everything. Like I don't put a lot of weight on it, but it's resting there. I'm a little nervous like putting any pressure like on the hinge, even though it would be towards the way that it bends anyway, I guess. But I think the the pictures we saw of the few people who had the incidences where the screen cracked is

Got me a little probably hypersensitive to it for now. And as that that kind of fades out, you know, because it's it's just different. And so you're still trying to feel out like, okay, what can this thing take? What can it not? What's it where is its kind of threshold for it might be getting ready to break it or something like that. Um

Jeff Battersby (25:35)
No.

Tom Anderson (25:36)
because that it is there. I mean, it's it's it's a thought. how how do you what are your thoughts for on the inner screen?

the nanotexture cover, which is really what it is. Uh I've not had any other devices that have had nanotexture of any sort. And I think we're finding nanotexture is a label Apple's applying, but the techniques are going to be different. Um, because this is different than it's been on studio display or MacBook

Jeff Battersby (26:04)
Mm-hmm.

Tom Anderson (26:05)
or iPad. Did you get that on your mini? Do you have that on your mini?

Riley Hill (26:08)
Yes.

Yeah, this is my first iPad nanotexture experience because it was cheaper to do it here than on the pro. Um so I'm torn because, you know, one of the things you want to do on the duo, right, is watch video. Um

And you know, obviously the nano texture does affect the colors a bit. Um, it hasn't stopped me. Like I still watch

Tom Anderson (26:34)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (26:34)
more I'm watching more video on my phone than I have in years. But uh it's noticeable. Um

And I haven't had the m I p iPad mini enough to say how different it is, but it feels I will say like it's it's very noticeable on the duo. Coming over to the iPad mini, like I had to look. I like, did they actually send me the nano texture? 'Cause it doesn't, you know,

Tom Anderson (26:56)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (26:56)
Okay, interesting.

Riley Hill (26:58)
it doesn't stand out quite as much. And to your point, I think they're different processes. Um so but yeah.

Jeff Battersby (27:05)
And as far as watching video

on the mini, is it pretty clear or is it, I uh mean, get a new display on it, right?

Riley Hill (27:14)
Yeah. It was I was watching last night in bed some video and like the blacks looked pretty black. They didn't look grey.

Jeff Battersby (27:19)
Okay.

Riley Hill (27:20)
Um so either way it's a step up from the last L C D mini, um, for sure. But I it didn't look noticeably like, that's not OLED black, like it looked like it to me in at least in no lighting. For sure. Um

But one other thing I guess on the pencil I wanted to mention, I know we jumped off that, but like I was actually surprised I went through um the duo with the USB C pencil and I mean you get you don't get everything from iPad, but you get a lot of the stuff from iPad, like a lot of that stuff that people forget about you can do with the pencil beyond just taking notes, you know, like the scribble, like math notes, like uh

Jeff Battersby (28:01)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (28:02)
the notes from the lock screen, stuff like that. So like I encourage people, um

If you're interested in using the pencil, um, you know, explore with it. You know. It's more than just an annotation tool, you know.

Tom Anderson (28:16)
Mm-hmm. And I think it feels pretty good on the nanotexture on the Duo. Um I like it better than I like it on my thirteen inch iPad Pro, which is n does not have nanotexture, it's just glass. Uh and I think it feels pretty good. I do miss uh some of the features of the Apple Pencil Pro. Um, like the tap to change the tools and stuff like that. Um

Mostly because my handwriting's poor and I'm constantly having to erase and rewrite. But it was really

Jeff Battersby (28:43)
Bwahahahaha

Tom Anderson (28:46)
handy on the pro. Uh I suspect future pro models will come to duos at some point. It just seems to make sense to me. Um and then day to day, like how would how are you using yours mostly in terms of do you leave it open most of the time, do you have it closed most of the time?

Riley Hill (29:06)
So my paranoia I guess is with that inner display too to an extent. So I've actually been leaving it in book mode and having standby turn up for a lot of the time or turn on, excuse me. But um other than that, like

Tom Anderson (29:18)
Mm-hmm. I always forget about that.

Riley Hill (29:20)
yeah, it's it's pretty handy. So

Jeff Battersby (29:21)
What is that? Explain. For those of us that don't have two O's.

Riley Hill (29:27)
So the standby feature, uh, basically which to this point I think your phone had to be charging, like if you had a fifteen or sixteen and it showed a clock or photos or something.

Jeff Battersby (29:34)
Okay, now I know what you're talking about. Yeah, right.

Riley Hill (29:38)
Um but on the duo it turns on automatically. when you lock the phone um and position it one of the poses, so I do open book mode and then I get calendar on one side and then photos on the other. Um but if I'm not doing that, it's closed. Like I don't really entertain leaving it open.

I don't want that inner screen to get damaged. Like it's just it lives close otherwise. Not even at night it's it's closed.

Tom Anderson (30:05)
Interesting. I've gone the other way.

Riley Hill (30:08)
Ha ha ha.

Tom Anderson (30:09)
Or I I leave mine open because I tend to treat mine as a bit more like an iPad when I'm home, uh, to take advantage of the bigger screen. And but when I'm out, even at work, and it's on my desk at work, I have it closed there, obviously in the car. in my pocket, places like that. But so I've kind of been skewing in that direction so far. Um, even overnight, like I'll leave it

open. I don't know why I do it overnight. It's like a mm maybe I'm putting

Riley Hill (30:38)
Yeah. It's

Tom Anderson (30:39)
more stress on it being open versus closed. Who knows? But that I think the is it C net that's running the fold test? Yeah, and they're up over three hundred thousand folds on it now and it's holding up fine, which I'm sure Apple's done uh uh

Jeff Battersby (30:54)
More than,

well more than 3,000. What about the crease? you guys, do you see it? Do you notice it?

Riley Hill (31:01)
I see it, but I I I can't muster the energy to care. Like it it I mean okay,

Jeff Battersby (31:06)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Riley Hill (31:08)
i it it's more of a big deal that you feel it, and even that it's just like it's fine. Like

Jeff Battersby (31:13)
you do feel it.

Riley Hill (31:14)
yeah, a hundred percent, yeah.

Tom Anderson (31:14)
Yeah. Yeah. If you run your

finger across it, you can feel it. Uh I don't notice it with the pencil quite as much. if I'm writing and I go across that area, I don't really notice it as much there. And then using it, if it's dead center in front, you don't really know don't see it. Um, even if it's uh a dark background, you don't see it. But if it's off to the side, you can see it. It's not been a thing at all for me really. That's caused any issue.

Jeff Battersby (31:40)
Yeah, it's, I

mean, what I've seen of it, it's not a crease like folding a piece of paper and running your thumb along the edge and then opening it back up. Yeah, yeah, it's not,

Tom Anderson (31:49)
But nice sharp edge.

Jeff Battersby (31:52)
it seems to me from what I've seen, I mean, it's there and it's like a little dip in it. um I don't know whether that would bother me or not. It might bother me because I'm anal that way, but. uh

Yeah, I don't, and I've also seen when the screen's lit up, you don't see, it doesn't seem like you see it at all. Like it's not there, it's only when it's either, as you said Tom, with uh darker content on the screen or the screen's off. And then you would notice it.

Riley Hill (32:28)
Yeah, I think the job for them really was just to make sure you don't notice it while you're watching a video. And you absolutely don't. Like

Jeff Battersby (32:36)
Okay.

Riley Hill (32:36)
that yeah, to me was was the hiater bit and so they succe succeeded there, so yeah, it's been been good.

Tom Anderson (32:45)
Yep.

Uh let's talk about iOS for a minute. Um it is it's iOS, but it's a duo version of the iOS. and pretty much. Yeah. I mean um

Riley Hill (32:58)
Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (32:58)
Do OS.

Tom Anderson (33:04)
so you know, and they've they've shifted the dock to the right side, uh, both on the front screen and uh things when you open it up, might be wrong. Um

Yeah, when you open it up too. Um that's been a bit of an adjustment just because of gosh, how many years? 17 years of muscle memory that it's down at the bottom. Um, and then they moved it. The applications that have been updated, of course, can get the sidebar on the right hand side. Um they've moved the unified Wi Fi battery and cell strength indicators kind of up at the top, and on the front, that's right below the selfie cam.

And then the docs down below that. How are you getting along with those changes? Because for the most part it's been okay. It's it's it's some retraining there, uh, for me, but I still feel like there's some rough edges there.

Riley Hill (33:59)
I love that unified indicator. That I think that's my favorite thing. I don't know why. It I

Tom Anderson (34:02)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's nice. It's real sweet.

Riley Hill (34:05)
I always love the old IOS seven dots for signal strength or circles or whatever they had. feels like a throwback to that. Um the doc probably needs I haven't taken my a you probably needs to rethink, right? Because it's they went from the easiest apps to reach to maybe the hardest if you trying to use the phone one handed. So it's like

I kinda wanna redo the dock and put something else in there, but I haven't brought myself to do it yet. Um like I like it visually. Like it's just it's different visually and that feels cool, but in actual use it's uh you know, a little bit harder to use those apps or get to those apps rather. Um

Jeff Battersby (34:47)
You right handed or left handed?

Riley Hill (34:49)
I am right handed. I'm one of these right handed people using the phone in their left hand. Yeah.

Jeff Battersby (34:53)
Okay, so you use the phone in your left hand. All right, yeah, that's I

am, I can use either hand, but I use my phone primarily with my left hand. And I think that reach would be really hard for me, but particularly with the, you I would have to two hand an open duo, you know, that's where I'd be navigating that. uh And even on my Macs, I have my dock on the left hand side. You know, that's hidden on the left hand side of my screen.

I think that's one of the things, I mean, I'm sure I could get used to it, but that would be a hard sell for me.

Riley Hill (35:31)
I wonder if this is a impetus for them to consider letting us move the dock on our iPhones and iPads, you know, like

Tom Anderson (35:37)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (35:38)
justify that feature. So I wouldn't I was doing some testing with the mini on the monitor and I'm like, yeah, I kinda would like to have my dock on the side here, but you can't you can't do that.

Tom Anderson (35:49)
Not yet.

Jeff Battersby (35:48)
All all

land your Mac.

Tom Anderson (35:52)
Not yet. Um um

With everything being a bit different, uh the screen size closed, screen size open, then like coming from an iPhone Air or Pro or Pro Max. I haven't done anything with it yet, but I feel kind of tempted to experiment with different home screen layouts. Um, because i when you open the phone, you get

The today what was used to be the today view. I don't know what they call it now, but like on your 18 Pro Jeff, when you unlock it, if you swipe to the right and it's got the widgets there that come up, when you

Jeff Battersby (36:36)
Yep. Yep.

Tom Anderson (36:37)
open the phone, when you open the duo, that's what you see on the left hand side of the screen. And then you see like your normal

Jeff Battersby (36:42)
interesting.

Tom Anderson (36:43)
home screen on the right hand side. And then as you swipe through, it progresses kind of like a page at a time. So like half a screen at a time. Whereas so that's where it's a little different than iPad too, because like iPad, you've got

obviously the screen, all your icons, and if you swipe between screens, you know, everything that's on the screen goes left when you swipe and then that what's ever to the right comes into focus, into view. On this, it's more like a half step. So you swipe, you get the next page of icons. You swipe, you get the next page. But what's on so like if you've got left and right, and then when you swipe, what's on the left goes out of view. What's on the right switches over to the left side and then the right side gets filled with what was ever to the right off screen at that point.

Um so a different you can go you can do that faster if you use those little dots down at the bottom of the screen, just like you can on the normal phones. Um and so I'm tempted to maybe experiment there with with some layout stuff 'cause typically like it it kind of dawned on me when I looked at it open how many pages of widgets I had set up on my sixteen Pro Max, because now I've got like, you know, these these dashboard views like nobody can see it.

off camera, but so I've got, you know, pages of widgets here. So I'm like I don't mind that, but maybe there's some better layouts I could do or something. I don't know. Have have you tinkered with that at all?

Riley Hill (38:03)
Yeah, I've been slowly kind of reorienting my home screens to be more like my iPads. Adding yeah, I used to on my air I think I only had I don't know four apps or or eight apps or something on my main screen home screen and that was it. But now I'm bringing in a lot more apps on the first two pages. Um

kinda fill that out and then I turned my today view just into the calendar widget, the oversized calendar widget. Um seemed like the best use for that space for me. Um one other change I did only on the outer screen, which is a didn't realize it er no, sorry, just not on this wallpaper. Are you guys large icon people? Like were you no?

Tom Anderson (38:48)
No. I haven't messed with that yet.

Riley Hill (38:49)
This was the first

it's the first time I've turned that on. Um, I think 'cause in their marketing images they have the large icons with no app names. Um

Tom Anderson (38:57)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (38:58)
so I realized I switched my wallpaper yesterday, it didn't carry over. But I kinda like that on this screen. I don't know why, but um

Tom Anderson (39:06)
We'll have

Jeff Battersby (39:06)
That's

Tom Anderson (39:07)
to check it

Jeff Battersby (39:07)
on the main screen, the close screen. Okay.

Riley Hill (39:09)
Yeah. It it actually carries across both, I I realized,

but uh but that's but it's been the first time I've experimented with that 'cause on the iPad it feels kind of ridiculous to make the icons bigger.

Tom Anderson (39:20)
Right.

Riley Hill (39:21)
But but yeah. So yeah, I've got I don't have a ton of widgets but I'm just I'm slowly turning the the open view with two pages up into like an iPad view I feel like. But we're not quite there yet.

Tom Anderson (39:35)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and then with so with multitasking, for for those that don't know, you can you basically get a split view like you would on the iPad. Um, I like the way that they've implemented it. It's very easy to use, uh, where you just swipe up from the bottom, drag the app that you want to put into split view left to right, and they give you a little visual indicator on the display, like, yes, that's a target, drop it there. You

put it in place and then at that point they take you back to your home screen to pick the next app, which is nice. Makes I think it's easier. Uh and then if you double tap in the center, you can pair the apps and then they stay paired. And so as you switch back and forth between apps, it'll it'll keep the pairing there, which is kind of nice. Um and then something I was I tried the other night, I was watching uh the football game on Sunday night and I was handwriting some thoughts about the phone for this episode. And I had the

duo in portrait mode and I had the video pinned at the top and then the note underneath where you can write and I thought that was kinda nice, uh nice experience there too. Have you done much with that?

Riley Hill (40:41)
Yeah, um so not a ton like the side by side split view, I just haven't found the right, I guess, use case yet. Um although I do wonder because you can also, you know, have two of the same app, like two Safari windows or or whatever, if the app supports multi window. so I do wonder what the the the adoption of that feature's going to be. Um

if people stumble upon it, but um I do appreciate how simple it is. Um it is similar, I think it was iPad OS fifteen. We had a implementation that was similar ish, but it didn't have like the targets where you could see. Like I think there's one version where you could create a split view and then it gave you your home screen to pick the next one. so it's similar to that, but but I hope they do bring this over to the iPad in some

form uh because it's very intuitive. Um

I've done the portrait video thing a few times. that's a little more useful because honestly, when I open this when I open the screen it's m it's almost always I open it and turn it portrait. Like I I don't use it landscape too often just because uh the keyboard feels weird on the inside screen. Like the keyboard I don't know

Tom Anderson (42:01)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (42:02)
what it is, but it just it feels off and so I just use it in portrait.

Tom Anderson (42:06)
Almost looks too

big and the spacing's weird or something. Yeah.

Riley Hill (42:09)
Yeah, doesn't feel

right. So I I just turn it into portrait and use it that way, which is except for video, a single app affair. And yeah, it's been fine. But um people used to tell me like i on Android, uh they would be like watching YouTube and scrolling Reddit was like the big use case for Split View and it's like

Tom Anderson (42:30)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (42:31)
I guess, you know, it's fine, I don't know. Um

I I don't know. I I I guess I'm I'm still I've always been a single tasker on the phone and so it's I it's muscle memory, it's hard to break. You know.

I've uh I like having the option on the uh on the inner display. I do hope they add, you know, just general s top and bottom split view on the the inner display in Portrait. That would make a lot of sense. Um

Tom Anderson (43:08)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (43:08)
maybe once more apps have adapted to just being resizable, they'll enable that. But obviously we're still early days and all of that stuff.

Tom Anderson (43:17)
Yeah, that feels like an iOS twenty eight thing. You

Jeff Battersby (43:19)
Heheheheh...

Tom Anderson (43:21)
know, 'cause it's it'll be easy to add, but people will be excited. great, then we yeah, we should have had that from day one. I'm glad they did it. Um, kind of thing. So easy win for them, I think, if they do it then. cameras, I've heard you say on iPad pros primarily, and you're not a too concerned about

Riley Hill (43:37)
Mm-hmm. I don't

Tom Anderson (43:39)
cameras either way.

Riley Hill (43:41)
know. No. Um the and that under display camera for the first few days was really distracting. Um, especially when I would use it out open the screen outside. Like that it was just kinda glaring at me, I felt like. Yeah,

Jeff Battersby (43:55)
You could see that. Okay.

Riley Hill (43:57)
like yeah. I haven't yeah.

Tom Anderson (43:57)
Yeah, 'cause it's

I was just gonna say it's very shiny compared to the rest of the inner display. Um and so it it's obvious when you see it. Like just using it, you really don't, but under certain lighting it it reflects a a great bit more.

Riley Hill (44:16)
Yeah. And I I realize just now I haven't thought about it in like a week, week and a half or whatever. Um, since it's gotten cold and I'm not outside as much, but um

Jeff Battersby (44:24)
Hehehehehe

Tom Anderson (44:24)
Ha ha ha.

Riley Hill (44:26)
that was that was initially kinda off putting, but as far as the cameras themselves, like, you know, my goal, I just I'm the most basic camera user in the world. I wanna point and shoot, and the phone just makes it look good. That's that is what I care about. And it's fine for me.

Jeff Battersby (44:44)
Yeah, and to that end, the video that I talked about earlier Tom sent me um was a pretty hard comparison between the Duo's cameras, the iPhone 16, and the 18 Pro, I think. Was that 16 Pro and 18 Pro? Was it 17? Okay.

Tom Anderson (45:03)
Uh seventeen and eighteen. Mm-hmm.

Jeff Battersby (45:07)
And what was interesting is, you know, I...

I got the 18 Pro for the cameras. I love the aperture. The aperture is really nice, nice feature. um I've gotten some pretty cool shots as a result of that. uh But what he's pointing out is in terms of quality, between the two, it's other than not having a wide angle camera, uh it's solid camera.

And I think some of it has to do with sensor, the actual sensor that's on it. You know, you don't quite get the detail or you don't quite get the light in some super low light shots that you might. But other than that, it's pretty solid. think for almost everybody, it's going to be a pretty good camera, you know, just for being able to take pictures. Tom, you were sending me pictures last week that you'd taken with the duo and, you know, I liked them.

They were good quality. They were really, really decent. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see. And my assumption is Apple's gonna, they'll boost the cameras as time goes on. But this is kind of like the air, which the air really does feel to me like preamble to the duo. How thin can we make this? What can we do with this thinness? And then slap the two together, kind of.

Tom Anderson (46:37)
Yeah, and I think something I ran into this week with the cameras when I was out, there were a few instances where I was like, This is where the three X or the five X or the Four or the Eight on the newer pros would have been handy because I was like, I'm just like a few steps short on where I want to get to and I I just couldn't, right? Like I did do a couple tests, like

with the digital zoom just to see and then I went into the photos app and adjusted the photographic styles and stuff and yeah, it didn't do much but it helped with the colors a little bit. Uh and so that if you're heavy if you're a heavy user of the telephoto, especially beyond two X, I think that's where you're gonna start to hit the ceiling and you're gonna be like, man, I could have had a good shot and I think my kids are older now, so it doesn't really apply quite as much, but

if especially like you've got little kids or something because I can remember, you know, y your kids are playing or something and they're doing something and you're like, you know, this would be a nice shot. I'm gonna go ahead and take it. But if you get up to get closer to them, they're going to stop doing whatever they're doing and it's going to interrupt the photo. Uh and so I think in those types of situations, you'll miss it. Also like if you're if you need some of the advanced pro features, those are not on the duo, right? So you don't get Pro Raw, you don't get Apple log.

Jeff Battersby (48:00)
Yeah.

Tom Anderson (48:01)
for video. So if you're if you need those things, uh it's gonna fall short there. I was hoping we were up at uh my wife's parents last weekend for family get together and I was hoping to try out the smart take with the duos so where you can put it in kind of like the laptop pose where it's almost like it's on a stand of its own. And then you hit the smart take button. And I did do it with it's just sitting around the table to see if it worked and it did.

but I was hoping to get a like a few family pictures there. So that's where everybody gets in the frame and then they take s pictures automatically for you instead of having to trigger it from your watch or somebody take the picture. But I didn't get a chance to do that. So maybe over Thanksgiving I can do that. Have you tried that at all, Riley? Any of the smart take or I forget what the other modes are.

Riley Hill (48:44)
I haven't tried it yet, although if we actually do a Christmas card this year it would be a good use case for that. Um

Tom Anderson (48:52)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (48:52)
to get that shot. Um no, I haven't tried any of the advanced modes yet. Um I do I feel like I'm I feel like I'm willfully ignorant on the camera stuff just because I'm afraid if I if I

Jeff Battersby (49:08)
You

Riley Hill (49:09)
dig into it, I will never be able to not have a profile and I don't you know, these the air was

Tom Anderson (49:14)
Yeah.

Riley Hill (49:14)
fun, this is fun, but like if I became a camera actual photographer person like photography person I probably

Tom Anderson (49:19)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (49:20)
would be stuck on the pros and I don't I don't wanna do that. It's not fun. No.

Jeff Battersby (49:23)
Don't talk to Chris Freitag.

Tom Anderson (49:23)
And then no. And then you're gonna go out buying,

you know, camera cameras and fifteen different lenses and yeah, it's it's a

Jeff Battersby (49:32)
Just two, I only have two lenses.

Tom Anderson (49:34)
Yeah, just two. I think I have two. I do. Yeah, I've got a Sigma and the Sony that came with it. Um so app situation we we talked about a little bit. Um and let's for people who aren't familiar with how that works, uh so there are and and you being a developer, Riley, I'd curious to get your take on this. Um there are apps that are updated. There are apps that are updated and optimized for duo. So and I'll let you

speak to the specifics and then there are apps that are completely letter boxed and look kind of silly.

Riley Hill (50:09)
Yes. Yeah, and Apple, um, on the developer site they have a surprisingly good graphic outlining this, but um at a high level if your app was not compiled on Xcode twenty seven, which came out with the twenty seven releases, you get letterboxed. 'cause

your app doesn't know anything about these dimensions. If you at least build your app on twenty seven of any number, you'll extend, your app will extend and you get the black bar on the side, I think on the the the the inner screen or in the front screen too. And then if you compile with twenty seven point one or probably two at this point, then you can take full advantage of the screen. Um and this is, you know, obviously what we're waiting on here. Um for most

What I kinda hope is

developers to have kind of a two faced approach of like, let me just get this filling the screen first and then do a second pass on like, okay, what cool things can I do with the the poses. Um I think some developers are going straight to well let me j if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna go all the way and they're figuring out the poses and stuff and you know we're we're waiting. Um but the um the client I'm working with right now, they are their app um they're kind of in the they're trying to get to the point of building on

on twenty seven and as far as actual dual support which they want to do it's a big effort because you want to involve designers and you want to, you know

Like for for if you're a company, this process might take a while because there's a lot of you can't just do it. There's there's a lot of layers to go through. So that long tail of apps that, you know, not so much indie developers but like your uh I don't know, thermostat or something or your whatever app. Some of that stuff's gonna take a while.

Tom Anderson (52:01)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that to some degree lends to the fun because the indie developers, some of them that are just really into it, they go all out right away. And it's a a good opportunity for them to get some exposure because people are sharing apps, right? Like I've seen two or three new note taking apps that kind of mimic field note style notebooks when you have this the screen open. Um, and so that's been kind of fun to see that

tiny computers app where the guy built kind of like simulations of different laptops throughout the years. So like orange iBooks from back in the day, Jeff, and stuff like that. And

Jeff Battersby (52:38)
Ha ha ha ha ha

Tom Anderson (52:39)
and they actually work to it to a certain degree. Um, like you can interact with them and do some things. Uh fun stuff like that. Uh and so that that's been fun too, 'cause it's a bit of a throwback to the original app store.

for the phone where you got you know the beer drinking app and the candles and the

Jeff Battersby (52:54)
Nuh-uh-uh.

Tom Anderson (52:55)
flashlights and the fart apps and all the goofy stuff that came with it and just some and I think one for the duo was I forget the name of it you may know Riley. It's the one where you make the sandwiches or something, the paninis. Yeah. And so yeah. And oh

Riley Hill (53:07)
I don't think I've seen that one.

Jeff Battersby (53:07)
What?

Tom Anderson (53:12)
I I wish I could remember the name to give a plug, but I don't have it but I saw a video of it. And

Jeff Battersby (53:15)
You

Tom Anderson (53:16)
so when it's open, you're building your sandwich, right? So you're putting, you know, your

Jeff Battersby (53:21)
leh

Tom Anderson (53:21)
chicken,

your tomatoes, your cheese, whatever you want on the sandwich. And then when you close it, that's like the panini press. And the objective

Jeff Battersby (53:28)
my god.

Tom Anderson (53:30)
is to not burn the sandwiches. And so it's kind of like a game. And so you build, you know, I don't know if there are levels or what to this game. Um, but it it was really creative uh for making use of, you know, what the duo can do. So it's it it looked like a lot of fun. So kudos to them. We'll put it in the show notes. I'll find it and dump it in there.

Jeff Battersby (53:49)
Was that

the Toasty? Was that the name of it?

Tom Anderson (53:53)
I think it might be, yeah.

Jeff Battersby (53:54)
That's so f-

Tom Anderson (53:56)
Yes, really creative and fun. Um Are there any apps you're waiting to see updated that are you're kinda like, I wish these would hurry up, like that are kinda key to what you're using.

Riley Hill (54:08)
You know, y YouTube Studio would be I guess the big one. Um that app needs a rewrite though, 'cause like it just um, if you ever tried using it on an iPad connected to a display, it freaks out. Like it turns one of your screens black and i it it g it goes wild that whole thing just needs to be redone. Um, that'd be the big one for me. trying to think of apps I run into. Like the Apple, the the built in but not built in.

apps like you know the Apple Store app I've been using a lot obviously

Jeff Battersby (54:41)
Nuh.

Riley Hill (54:42)
lately that's not up da updated um yeah I know they just got

Tom Anderson (54:43)
Right. That's completely letter boxed, which is funny. Yeah.

Riley Hill (54:49)
test flight and I think App Store Connect so I'd like to see if Apple finish the job on their apps. Um

Tom Anderson (54:55)
Mm-hmm.

Riley Hill (54:56)
And I continue to believe that at some point soon we're gonna see like Final Cut and PixelMeter Pro show up on iPhone. Um, I don't know if they would make them duo only. That seems like not a thing they do, but um I feel like those apps have to be coming sooner than later. If for no other reason to than to extend their subscription, you know, services, you know, intake, you know, so

Tom Anderson (55:19)
Right.

Yeah, and it definitely

Jeff Battersby (55:21)
to take more of your money.

Tom Anderson (55:23)
yeah, and it definitely builds on the duo story that it's, you it's a little pocket workstation of sorts that, you know, folds up, tucks away nicely, and then when you got some spare time sitting on the train or uh drinking coffee at the coffee shop or whatever, you can squeeze in fifteen minutes of work on something if you wanted to. Like the other day I was meeting in a meeting with a guy and we were you know, I was able to pull I was we with a financial planner and he's

asking some questions and I've done it on my phone before, but it was nice to be able just to open it up and have a bigger canvas to say, yeah, it's this, this, no, it would be this. And so that was really helpful too. YouTube music has not been updated at all yet. Um it's still letterboxed Snipped, the podcast app that I like to use. Uh it hasn't been updated yet. I think they're working on it. Um that one could be interesting on the duo, especially open.

Because it could give you a bigger canvas to go back and interact with like your SNPs and transcripts and stuff like that. Um bank app has not been, don't really care. I just check it once a week, maybe. But a lot of them have been. that I use craft was updated. Uh, use a clipboard manager named Paste that was updated early. My budgeting app was updated, Slack Things, Carrot, ShareShot. So Mark Palmer's done a great job with that. So shout out to Mark. I use that app all the time.

for social posts and things like that. Um so a bunch of So progress is definitely being made, but like you said early on, with the people who were like, I'm returning it because the apps aren't updated. It's only been two weeks, y'all. Calm down.

Jeff Battersby (56:55)
Yeah,

well, also, come on, you're returning it because the apps aren't updated?

Riley Hill (57:01)
Like, were were we this impatient for the iPhone ten? Like I don't remember or the iPhone four for that matter. Like I just I don't remember just

Jeff Battersby (57:09)
You know what, you gotta have something to yell about that's the only way that you get people to pay attention to your content. uh I hate to be that guy, but that's really what it is.

Tom Anderson (57:22)
For attention.

Jeff Battersby (57:24)
Right, everybody's seeking attention. All right, we're about to bump up uh to an hour, which is way more than we want anybody to to spend time with us. We don't even want to spend time with each other that long. uh

Tom Anderson (57:35)
I thought we were

going three hours, Jeff. Mm-hmm. And we can break it out into hour segments. I'll

Jeff Battersby (57:38)
it's a three hour show? Okay, Mr. Rogan. No, thank you.

Riley Hill (57:41)
Ha ha ha.

Tom Anderson (57:42)
just edit. Riley has nothing else to do.

Jeff Battersby (57:45)
Right, doesn't have anything to do. Riley,

final take, you've had this for a couple weeks now, what's your overall impression of

Riley Hill (57:56)
Um I think to sum it up, uh, you know, it's you know, and I I kinda wrote about this earlier in the year about like all this stuff that's

kind of going after the iPad's unique selling points of like the Neo being the cheap computer. The iPad used to be that and then you got this duo, right? That's basically in kind of an iPad and an iPhone combined for portability and then touch screen MacBook Pro. Um

But I think where I've landed with the duo is that it's it really is like it's a small phone and a big phone combined. It's not really so much just a iPhone and an iPad combined. Um and and that's different. Um and I like it from that perspective. Um it makes me want to carry my phone more when I kinda had given up on that. Um

Just because like if I am somewhere and I need to do something and I don't have my iPad, it's not gonna feel as terrible or as as just kinda cramped as things often did on a you know, candy bar phone, right? So um I think there's a lot of potential here. Um and, you know, I I'm just eagerly awaiting developers to continue to update their apps, but you know, just take some time. It'll be alright.

Tom Anderson (59:19)
Well put.

Jeff Battersby (59:20)
All right, well, as always, we thank you for spending this amount of time with us. And Riley, we're grateful for you coming on and giving us your insight. You are by far the only person I know that uses an iPad for everything. So it's pretty uh always I'm

Riley Hill (59:35)
Ha ha ha

Jeff Battersby (59:37)
always interested in your take. And this was great today. Where can we find you and what you're posting here, there and everywhere?

Riley Hill (59:47)
Uh slatepad.org is the site. Um and the YouTube channel I think would be youtube.com slash slatepad, but it's linked at the site if that's wrong. Pretty sure it's right though. Uh that but that'd be where to go and slatepad on threads. Spend way too much time there.

Jeff Battersby (1:00:04)
Yeah, likewise. I'm on threads more than, especially in the last week or so. It's been a little crazy. But Tom, where can we find you?

Tom Anderson (1:00:15)
primarily on threads at Tom Anderson. Website's up Tomfanderson dot com. Not uh newsletter's kinda on a bit of a hiatus. Life's gotten busy, so that's threads is the primary outlet these days.

Jeff Battersby (1:00:28)
All right. And you can find me at Reyes Point. I post almost nothing. I did post a picture last week that I'm kind of proud of. So there you go. Once every, every so often, I might wax eloquent on somebody else's posts, but for the most part, I keep my mouth shut and just stalk everybody. uh the, we're always grateful to Psychokinetics for our show music and, uh, to Celsius seven as well. And to Randall Morton design.

for our lovely droopy-eyed balding old man artwork. Right? So we have, isn't

Tom Anderson (1:01:08)
Very accurate.

Jeff Battersby (1:01:09)
that so completely accurate? It's

Tom Anderson (1:01:11)
Mm.

Jeff Battersby (1:01:12)
kind of funny. Alrighty, Tommy.

Tom Anderson (1:01:15)
We done?

Jeff Battersby (1:01:17)
We are done.

Tom Anderson (1:01:18)
We're done. All right. Riley, again, appreciate it. Thanks, sir. Always a pleasure. Yep,

Riley Hill (1:01:22)
Thank you for having me.

Tom Anderson (1:01:24)
Jeff, good to see you again. And thank you all for hanging out with us today. And spread the word if you don't mind. Um, if you enjoyed the show, tell a friend. If you didn't enjoy the show, tell an enemy. We don't really care either way. That's

Jeff Battersby (1:01:35)
Tell everybody that's all we care about.

Tom Anderson (1:01:37)
right, just spread the word. Um and until then, we'll talk or rather we'll see you in a few weeks. And until then, do enjoy the rest of your day or your night.

Jeff Battersby (1:01:44)
See ya!